Buzz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2022
Threads
6
Messages
56
Reaction score
71
Location
Your moms house
Vehicles
2021
I've been recording driving data for the last couple of months and finally got around to putting it all together so I can look at it today and thought I would share. I really wish this stuff was available through the app or vehicle, but oh well! I was most curious about battery consumption as a function of speed and temperature. I live in NY where we have some pretty decent swings in temp and I drive 166 miles round trip on weekdays(yeah, 83 miles one way... thank Ford for BlueCruise). When I bought Buzz, chargers were always available at the university, and free of charge. Well, there has been a major increase in plug in hybrids and other EVs on campus, so it's been a race to the chargers recently. So I have really needed to pay close attention to my efficiency. Wish I would've anticipated this when I bought it, I would've splurged on the extended range. Anyway, here's what I recorded and a really high level analysis of the data! I have not done any proper statistical analysis, just a quick visual tonight.

Vehicle is a '21 Select, AWD, SR(useable 68 kWh).

I used % battery consumed and calculated my own kWh consumed and mi/kWh. I felt like % consumed would be most reliable. I do have several other datapoints that I was recording. I'll attach the excel file at the end in case you're interested (sorted by speed, but not recorded like that. I did it for the average calculations). Sorry non-Americans, the data is all in mph and F°. I have recorded 45 trips, 83 miles each, of the exact same drive. Terrain is relatively flat.

Speed - I was really surprised at the impact speed has on consumption. Obviously, the data is a little confounded by outside temp, but I was hoping to wash that out with repeats and randomization. The difference between 65 mph and 70 mph is huge! I should get ~40 miles more per full charge by doing 65mph, 3.4 mi/kWh vs. 2.8 mi/kWh. I found that really surprising! So yeah, on my daily commute, I am that guy doing 65 mph... ?

Ford Mustang Mach-E Driving Data for 45 Trips. Mach-E's Efficiency as a Function of Temperature and Speed. 1670730484434


Outside Temp -This was a shock, considering what I've heard, but outside temperature doesn't seem to to be as significant of a factor in efficiency as I expected. The slope between 30 and 70 (F) is pretty minor. Though, we have colder days coming, and I don't expect it to be a linear relationship. Anyway, I used minimal climate on my trips. Again, hoping repeats and randomization will give it validity.

Here's the graph of the data at 65 mph
Ford Mustang Mach-E Driving Data for 45 Trips. Mach-E's Efficiency as a Function of Temperature and Speed. 1670731167024


And here it is at 70 mph.
Ford Mustang Mach-E Driving Data for 45 Trips. Mach-E's Efficiency as a Function of Temperature and Speed. 1670731319602


It does look like the efficiency could be a bit more compromised by temperature at higher speeds. Could just be coincidence though.

Yeah, so take a look. Tell me what you think. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts! I plan to keep recording, so I may send an update in another couple of months.

@Ford Motor Company , How about making this data available to us! I'd love to see it!
Sponsored

 

Attachments

andyrross

Well-Known Member
First Name
Andy
Joined
Feb 23, 2022
Threads
13
Messages
148
Reaction score
387
Location
Santa Fe NM USA
Vehicles
MME Premium AWD
Country flag
this is very interesting info. I hope you continue to publish the info as you go.
How did you remind yourself to get this data at the end of each trip? Did you take a quick picture of the screen?
 

Mach-Lee

Well-Known Member
First Name
Lee
Joined
Jul 16, 2021
Threads
262
Messages
11,351
Reaction score
24,978
Location
Wisconsin
Vehicles
2022 Mach-E Premium AWD
Occupation
Sci/Eng
Country flag
Using % consumed as an energy unit is not reliable because the capacity of the battery changes with temperature. 1% battery at 30ºF is less energy than 1% battery at 80ºF.

Also you don't know the actual capacity of your battery pack, only the theoretical.

You should use the kWh to empty parameter in scan data, that's much more accurate. Note it's reading before and after a trip, and then subtract for kWh used.

Also your temp data is pretty flat because you didn't use much climate control. I would have liked your data more if you left the climate on AUTO and set to the same temp for all the runs to reflect more typical usage (shutting off climate is an EV hypermiler thing).
 

tannerk89

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tanner
Joined
Oct 31, 2021
Threads
17
Messages
691
Reaction score
1,056
Location
Roanoke, VA
Vehicles
Mach-E P4X
Occupation
Project Manager
Country flag
Seems to reflect my efficiency reported by my car on my 62mile each way commute of about 2.4-3.1 m/kW at 70mph and 2.7-3.5 at 65mph (30-80 temps). Mine is shifted down by about 0.3 m/kW. I’m driving a 4X, so I would expect a little lower efficiency from my car.
 

mkhuffman

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mike
Joined
Nov 19, 2020
Threads
29
Messages
6,875
Reaction score
9,507
Location
Virginia
Vehicles
2025 Rivian R1T Tri-Max, Jeep GC-L, VW Jetta
Country flag
Lamonte, this is a very interesting post and confirms what I have observed also.

Efficiency is hugely impacted by two things: speed and E-Heat. Range is impacted by temperature because of the reduced capacity of the battery pack, but you don't see that in the efficiency ratings. You only see that when you measure the available kWh capacity to empty. (Lee posted this also, so I am just independently confirming with my own observations.)

I did a long drive recently with the exterior temperatures starting at around 30 F and rising to around 45 F. During most of that drive, I had climate control turned off. When the glass started to fog, I would turn it on Auto Low for a minute (usually less) and then turn it off. My efficiency was identical to when I did it in the middle of the summer. But when I take that drive with E-Heat on, my efficiency goes in the toilet.
 


mkhuffman

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mike
Joined
Nov 19, 2020
Threads
29
Messages
6,875
Reaction score
9,507
Location
Virginia
Vehicles
2025 Rivian R1T Tri-Max, Jeep GC-L, VW Jetta
Country flag
And on another note, your post confirms another thing that is more frustrating than interesting: charger congestion is becoming a big problem.

I wonder how many cars using the chargers at your University are fully charged and sitting there, hogging the charging space you could use? There is a bank of six EVSEs at my office building that are frequently occupied by fully charged cars. It so pisses me off, because I have a 145 mile drive to work and actually need a charge to get home. Those a-holes with fully charged Bolts could move their cars, but they don't. Arrg. And it is only getting worse with new BEV owners who don't know proper charger etiquette.

Now I will go back to being a mostly happy, optimistic person.
 

cyberman

Well-Known Member
First Name
Nick
Joined
Mar 13, 2022
Threads
3
Messages
51
Reaction score
34
Location
Preston, United Kingdom
Vehicles
2022 Mustang Mach E AWD SR
Occupation
Retired
Country flag
I did some Road Load calculations for my vehicle: AWD with SR battery, to see what the effect of increasing vehicle speed was on the power required to maintain a constant speed. Here is a handy graph showing that Road Load in kW and the resulting efficiency in miles/kWh:

Ford Mustang Mach-E Driving Data for 45 Trips. Mach-E's Efficiency as a Function of Temperature and Speed. 1670766639385

For those who are interested the Road Load is modelled using "run down" data collected experimentally: on a level test track the vehicle is timed as it freewheels from a high speed down to a stop. The resulting speed v. time is fitted to a quadratic equation that models the so-called Road Load.
 

RickMachE

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2021
Threads
267
Messages
17,919
Reaction score
27,907
Location
SE MI
Vehicles
2022 Mach-E Premium 4X, 2022 Lightning Lariat ER
Country flag
And on another note, your post confirms another thing that is more frustrating than interesting: charger congestion is becoming a big problem.

I wonder how many cars using the chargers at your University are fully charged and sitting there, hogging the charging space you could use? There is a bank of six EVSEs at my office building that are frequently occupied by fully charged cars. It so pisses me off, because I have a 145 mile drive to work and actually need a charge to get home. Those a-holes with fully charged Bolts could move their cars, but they don't. Arrg. And it is only getting worse with new BEV owners who don't know proper charger etiquette.

Now I will go back to being a mostly happy, optimistic person.
Thanks for the first laugh of the morning! ?
 
OP
OP

Buzz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2022
Threads
6
Messages
56
Reaction score
71
Location
Your moms house
Vehicles
2021
this is very interesting info. I hope you continue to publish the info as you go.
How did you remind yourself to get this data at the end of each trip? Did you take a quick picture of the screen?
I have a log in my phones “notes” app. I just jot it down when I get to campus and home. It’s become part of my routine.
 

SashaLondon

Well-Known Member
First Name
Sasha
Joined
Sep 11, 2020
Threads
32
Messages
1,393
Reaction score
1,500
Location
London
Vehicles
MME AWD SR
Country flag
Have you ever looked at the different drive modes and if they have any effect on efficiency at all?
 

Atxsw

Well-Known Member
First Name
Michael
Joined
Dec 30, 2020
Threads
2
Messages
521
Reaction score
297
Location
Austin
Vehicles
2022 Premium Std Range MME, Prius
Country flag
I've been recording driving data for the last couple of months and finally got around to putting it all together so I can look at it today and thought I would share. I really wish this stuff was available through the app or vehicle, but oh well! I was most curious about battery consumption as a function of speed and temperature. I live in NY where we have some pretty decent swings in temp and I drive 166 miles round trip on weekdays(yeah, 83 miles one way... thank Ford for BlueCruise). When I bought Buzz, chargers were always available at the university, and free of charge. Well, there has been a major increase in plug in hybrids and other EVs on campus, so it's been a race to the chargers recently. So I have really needed to pay close attention to my efficiency. Wish I would've anticipated this when I bought it, I would've splurged on the extended range. Anyway, here's what I recorded and a really high level analysis of the data! I have not done any proper statistical analysis, just a quick visual tonight.

Vehicle is a '21 Select, AWD, SR(useable 68 kWh).

I used % battery consumed and calculated my own kWh consumed and mi/kWh. I felt like % consumed would be most reliable. I do have several other datapoints that I was recording. I'll attach the excel file at the end in case you're interested (sorted by speed, but not recorded like that. I did it for the average calculations). Sorry non-Americans, the data is all in mph and F°. I have recorded 45 trips, 83 miles each, of the exact same drive. Terrain is relatively flat.

Speed - I was really surprised at the impact speed has on consumption. Obviously, the data is a little confounded by outside temp, but I was hoping to wash that out with repeats and randomization. The difference between 65 mph and 70 mph is huge! I should get ~40 miles more per full charge by doing 65mph, 3.4 mi/kWh vs. 2.8 mi/kWh. I found that really surprising! So yeah, on my daily commute, I am that guy doing 65 mph... ?

1670730484434.png


Outside Temp -This was a shock, considering what I've heard, but outside temperature doesn't seem to to be as significant of a factor in efficiency as I expected. The slope between 30 and 70 (F) is pretty minor. Though, we have colder days coming, and I don't expect it to be a linear relationship. Anyway, I used minimal climate on my trips. Again, hoping repeats and randomization will give it validity.

Here's the graph of the data at 65 mph
1670731167024.png


And here it is at 70 mph.
1670731319602.png


It does look like the efficiency could be a bit more compromised by temperature at higher speeds. Could just be coincidence though.

Yeah, so take a look. Tell me what you think. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts! I plan to keep recording, so I may send an update in another couple of months.

@Ford Motor Company , How about making this data available to us! I'd love to see it!

biggest surprise is the drop from 65mph to 70mph, I know its exponential but I expected less than the ~15% impact you are seeing here... I guess if I think I can't make it to the charger dropping even 5-6mph might be a huge range increase!
 
OP
OP

Buzz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2022
Threads
6
Messages
56
Reaction score
71
Location
Your moms house
Vehicles
2021
Using % consumed as an energy unit is not reliable because the capacity of the battery changes with temperature. 1% battery at 30ºF is less energy than 1% battery at 80ºF.

Also you don't know the actual capacity of your battery pack, only the theoretical.

You should use the kWh to empty parameter in scan data, that's much more accurate. Note it's reading before and after a trip, and then subtract for kWh used.

Also your temp data is pretty flat because you didn't use much climate control. I would have liked your data more if you left the climate on AUTO and set to the same temp for all the runs to reflect more typical usage (shutting off climate is an EV hypermiler thing).
Thank for the input, Lee!

I realize capacity is affected by temp, but I don't have a way to view actual battery capacity, what is this scan tool you speak of? How is it calculating the kWh used?

Also, I realize that running climate can consume a significant amount of energy, dependent on outside conditions and other factors. Though, I wasn't really interested in the amount of energy the heaters consumed. I was curious how the outside temps would affect driving efficiency only. I feel like adding climate into the mix would be a mess. especially considering the 40° swings I'm looking at. Then I have to start considering A/C vs Heater, outside temps and yeah... not value added for me.

Let me know what that tool is. If it's reasonably priced, and doesn't require disassembly of the vehicle to use it, I might throw that into the mix.

Again, thanks!
 
Last edited:

SpongeBad

Well-Known Member
First Name
Ken
Joined
Nov 3, 2021
Threads
19
Messages
172
Reaction score
292
Location
Calgary, Canada
Vehicles
2022 Mustang MACH E, 2013 Ford Escape
Country flag
It does look like the efficiency could be a bit more compromised by temperature at higher speeds. Could just be coincidence though.

Yeah, so take a look. Tell me what you think. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts! I plan to keep recording, so I may send an update in another couple of months.

@Ford Motor Company , How about making this data available to us! I'd love to see it!
Please do keep going. This is my first winter with the car, and so far I've noticed something similar to you; efficiency drop off at -2C (28F) is not terribly significant vs. say 20C (68F). It's there, obviously, but not as bad as I expected. I get about 4 - 4.5KM/kWh (2.5 - 2.8mi/kWh) at -2C vs. 5.4 - 5.8KM/kWh (3.4 - 3.6mi/kWh) at 20C.

When we've dropped down to -20C (-4F), though, it's been severe (50% loss in efficiency vs. -2): 2.2 - 2.4KM/kWh (1.4 - 1.5mi/kWh). I suspect this is driven by the combination of the impact severe cold has on Li batteries + the cabin heater needing to run more. January/February will tell the true tale of how bad it can get. We typically get some time with -40C (-40F) to really go extreme.

The car still has plenty of range for what I need day-to-day, but it would make me think twice about a long road trip, just because of the amount of time I'd need to spend charging (especially if the chargers cold lock; I'll be testing that at DCFC when the temperature drops and including a segment on my YouTube channel).
 
OP
OP

Buzz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2022
Threads
6
Messages
56
Reaction score
71
Location
Your moms house
Vehicles
2021
And on another note, your post confirms another thing that is more frustrating than interesting: charger congestion is becoming a big problem.

I wonder how many cars using the chargers at your University are fully charged and sitting there, hogging the charging space you could use? There is a bank of six EVSEs at my office building that are frequently occupied by fully charged cars. It so pisses me off, because I have a 145 mile drive to work and actually need a charge to get home. Those a-holes with fully charged Bolts could move their cars, but they don't. Arrg. And it is only getting worse with new BEV owners who don't know proper charger etiquette.

Now I will go back to being a mostly happy, optimistic person.
Yeah, don't get me going on the PIH blocking the chargers! It's like, my guy, you have a 12kWh battery on a L2 charger, why are you there for 6 hours!? I've asked our parking services department to start enforcing 4 hour time limits on chargers. My request seems to fall on deaf ears.

On a positive note, I appreciate their focus on efficiency. No-one drives a Bolt or Prius because they want to. :p
Sponsored

 
 







Top