hollisms

Member
Joined
May 12, 2022
Threads
1
Messages
18
Reaction score
42
Location
Ohio
Vehicles
Jeep JLRU
Country flag

Chuck

Well-Known Member
First Name
Chuck
Joined
May 13, 2021
Threads
63
Messages
981
Reaction score
1,390
Location
SoCal
Vehicles
Mustang Mach E 2021
Country flag
Paywall so I can't read the article. Is he implying that the dealerships will be cut out of the equation? If so, he'd better start building thousands of service centers because those dealerships will be gone or will not service such vehicles.
 

GoGoGadgetMachE

Well-Known Member
First Name
Michael
Joined
Jan 23, 2020
Threads
153
Messages
5,614
Reaction score
12,654
Location
Ohio
Vehicles
2021 Mach-E 1st Ed., 2022 Lightning Platinum
Occupation
Professional forum cheerleader and fanboy
Country flag
Paywall so I can't read the article. Is he implying that the dealerships will be cut out of the equation? If so, he'd better start building thousands of service centers because those dealerships will be gone or will not service such vehicles.
Dealerships have argued for decades that the reason they exist isn't to sell the vehicles, it's to support and service them - they are there for "our benefit" as customers, to protect us from Big Bad Manufacturing after the sale as well as to be able to "focus on the little guy car buyer" with the "great local support".

Either they service the vehicles still, and do a good job at it, or they die. They are going to have all of their arguments thrown back at them and will either need to actually do what they say they do, or they will go away. Either result is a good result.

p.s. there's whole threads on this argument on here already and I've already written my dissertation on another one of them, so I won't repeat myself. But there's not really any new arguments or discussion points around the car franchise dealership model at this point.
 

ZuleMME

Well-Known Member
First Name
Zule
Joined
Apr 23, 2021
Threads
10
Messages
1,020
Reaction score
1,481
Location
Denver, CO
Vehicles
21' Job1 P4X MME, 22' MYP
Occupation
Implementation Engineer
Country flag
All for it, but how are they going to get around the laws protecting dealership models? I doubt the privately owned dealers are going to play ball when they are being benched.

"As it stands at the moment, 17 states prohibit all automakers from selling vehicles directly to customers, while another 11 states have carved out specific exceptions for Tesla (and in some cases, other automakers that sell only EVs, which means Rivian and Lucid). "

https://cleantechnica.com/2022/01/3...-laws-holding-back-electric-vehicle-adoption/
 
OP
OP

hollisms

Member
Joined
May 12, 2022
Threads
1
Messages
18
Reaction score
42
Location
Ohio
Vehicles
Jeep JLRU
Country flag
Essentially, he is making the case that in order to compete with Telsa, etc. they need to refactor their costs reducing dealership and advertising costs and invest in "life cycle customer experience". I would characterize it as shifting the dealer networks into service and support. Supporting both making the purchase and maintenance after the fact.
 


jeffdawgfan

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jeff
Joined
Dec 17, 2019
Threads
29
Messages
471
Reaction score
756
Location
Georgia, USA
Vehicles
2021 Mustang MachE AWD ER, 2019 Ram 1500 Laramie
Occupation
Retired Navy / Veterans Administration
Country flag
Buying a car should be like buying any other major appliance. They deliver to you and if you have a problem it goes to service center. If the dealerships want to be the service center good for them. If they don't, good riddance. I would have no problem "buying the car" at a non-negotiating price from a dealer if they would quit all their crap. Let the manufacturers compete with each other and set the price instead of the dealerships. Everybody (but the crooked dealers) would win.
 

Chuck

Well-Known Member
First Name
Chuck
Joined
May 13, 2021
Threads
63
Messages
981
Reaction score
1,390
Location
SoCal
Vehicles
Mustang Mach E 2021
Country flag
Buying a car should be like buying any other major appliance. They deliver to you and if you have a problem it goes to service center. If the dealerships want to be the service center good for them. If they don't, good riddance. I would have no problem "buying the car" at a non-negotiating price from a dealer if they would quit all their crap. Let the manufacturers compete with each other and set the price instead of the dealerships. Everybody (but the crooked dealers) would win.
I've never bought a refrigerator directly from the factory, have you? I've always bought it from a dealer (retailer).


Aside: When I bought my Mach E at the dealer (45 miles away) I didn't drive off with it, they delivered it to my house the next day. Pretty much the same experience I'd have if I were to buy a major appliance.
 

Logal727

Well-Known Member
First Name
C
Joined
Aug 23, 2021
Threads
101
Messages
7,326
Reaction score
11,270
Location
Florida
Vehicles
‘21 Carbonized Gray Mustang Mach-E Premium AWD Ext
Country flag
I've never bought a refrigerator directly from the factory, have you? I've always bought it from a dealer (retailer).


Aside: When I bought my Mach E at the dealer (45 miles away) I didn't drive off with it, they delivered it to my house the next day. Pretty much the same experience I'd have if I were to buy a major appliance.
True but you can expect a consistent experience between most dealers of appliances. Imagine Lowes selling your ordered refrigerator to someone else.
 

jhalkias

Well-Known Member
First Name
John
Joined
Mar 3, 2020
Threads
122
Messages
2,482
Reaction score
4,953
Location
Ohio
Vehicles
'21 RR ME FE, '22 Corsair GT, '22 Lightning Lariat
Occupation
Benefit Fund Administrator
Country flag
How about this as a model . . .
  • Dealers have one of each model available on the lot for test drives in popular trims supplied by the manufacturer - which means no more inventory tying up their $$
  • Dealers get a standard fee from the manufacturer for sale - they can cut into that if they want to sell below MSRP, but cannot sell above MSRP.
  • Dealers continue to offer service, warranty service, and salespeople still offer education and knowledge about the cars along with test drives for the consumer.
  • Dealers can cut down their footprint of huge lots - cars are ordered other than the "Demo" models that can be sold when a replacement comes in after so many miles.
Smart dealers will figure it out. Dinosaurs will become extinct.
 

Engelbert

Well-Known Member
First Name
Engelbert
Joined
Aug 20, 2021
Threads
4
Messages
51
Reaction score
115
Location
Philadelphia
Vehicles
2021 Mustang Mach E Premium XR AWD
Country flag
So for EV sales, Farley basically wants something in the general region of Tesla. Not exactly Tesla. Tesla with differences.

Watching Tesla's Model Y pricing over time and comparing it to the closest available peer EVs/trims, it seems to me that instead of dealing with dealers' variable ADM, a Tesla buyer is just paying a hefty mandatory equivalent of that ADM, several thousand dollars' worth, directly to Tesla, baked into the fixed price. And of course there's no negotiation available at all: everyone pays it, so you can take it or leave it. Leveling off the worst and best deals available through the dealer model, basically, and sending the spoils directly to the manufacturer.

Under that new model it's highly unlikely that Ford keeps its inflation-adjusted EV pricing at the same levels as today, yes? If they can cut out dealerships, bump up sticker prices in a white-hot EV market, and keep the difference entirely for themselves? That's what the market will accept, given the number of people who are currently willing to pay ADM. Why not convert that ADM into a less objectionable, less visible, level-loaded, non-negotiable bump within a single sticker price that goes right to Ford?

I can see multiple reasons why Ford likes this. But maybe, at least in some ways, we customers should be careful what we specifically wish for. Isn't it likely that for those of us who dig into every opportunity to maximize our value-for-dollar (e.g. multiple dealerships, low/no ADM, questioning fees, applying X Plan, and more) when buying an EV, there will be higher average out-the-door prices?

I don't see X Plan going away, to be fair. What about the rest of our current levers?

And what about purchasing extended warranties specifically for new EVs under a dealer-free, direct-sales model? Might we say goodbye to our ability to find that handful of US Ford dealerships that will sell an extended warranty to you from afar at a dramatically lower price than your dealership tried to get you for when you bought the car? Will dealerships even be able to sell extended warranties, at prices of their choice, for EVs they aren't allowed to sell? That's potentially another chunk of customer savings that could go away, at least for those who want the extended warranty.

I imagine Ford knows that 95%+ of car buyers would rather pay a somewhat higher price to avoid any prospect of dealer shenanigans, the vague torment of variable pricing, and the time and effort and awkwardness of just dealing with those people when buying a car. But there is risk here for some, in that the direct online sales model may kill multiple levers to maneuver and negotiate those things down.

My dealership experience was the worst aspect of Mach E shopping/purchase/ownership, by far. Continuously irritating at the time. But I might have electively put up with it anyway, if I knew I was effectively paying myself a few thousand bucks to do so. Of course, willingness and tolerance vary by buyer...
 

dtbaker61

Well-Known Member
First Name
Dan
Joined
May 11, 2020
Threads
104
Messages
3,974
Reaction score
3,646
Location
santa fe,nm
Website
www.envirokarma.org
Vehicles
MME (delivered 2/26/21), DIY eMiata BEV
Occupation
Solar Sales/install
Country flag
https://www.freep.com/story/money/c...online-sales-non-negotiable-price/7468899001/

"We've got to go to nonnegotiated price. We've got to go to 100% online. There's no inventory (at dealerships), it goes directly to the customer. And 100% remote pickup and delivery," he said in New York during Bernstein's 38th Annual Strategic Decisions Conference streamed live."
Dealerships are going to HAVE to change their business model, and forget about ADM on new cars. Profit center will likely be used cars short term, and if they are smart they'll get really good at warranty/recall work where they can bill the mfg... and ADD 'modifications' at reasonable but profitable cost for aftermarket stuff:
- window tinting
- floormat upgrades
- seat upgrades
- hitches, bike racks, utility racks
- stripes, wraps, coatings
- wheel/tire upgrades

...since the only regular 'service' will be tires, windshield wipers/fluid, cabin air filter
 

spurlinb

Member
First Name
Brad
Joined
Oct 27, 2021
Threads
1
Messages
5
Reaction score
3
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
Vehicles
Toyota Highlander Hybrid, Toyota Rav 4 Hybrid, BMW
Occupation
Business Owner
Country flag
The plan should be:
Eliminate dealers from EV sales
Establish service centers dedicated to solely Model E lines, preferably Ford owned.
I literally just recommended this in my new car purchase survey. I ordered a MACH E back in January and cancelled recently and bought a 2022 Ford Ranger. I hope to trade it back in as soon as the F150 Lightning inventory has caught up. The reason I cancelled my MACH E order was the stories about how the dealerships are not really up to speed yet on working on them - customers waiting over 6 weeks for their Mach E to be fixed. in my survey I wrote that FORD should make sure they have service centers with fully trained techs for the EV models. Bummed I backed out of the Mach E - but the F150 Lightning was what I really wanted anyway.
 

s7davis

Well-Known Member
First Name
Scott
Joined
Nov 28, 2019
Threads
7
Messages
258
Reaction score
218
Location
California
Vehicles
2019 Alfa Romeo
Country flag
He is dividing the company from ICE and Electric to be able to justify all EV purchases can be done and delivered all online no need to go to the dealership to pick up the car. While the rest of the vehicles (ICE cars, trucks, SUVs) will still be done at the dealerships. Farley knows in order to keep moving forward he needs to find a way to get away from the old age dealership model and move toward the digital age where all can be done online. This was proven over the past 2 years with COVID-19 around.
 
 




Top