The truth about Electrify America's progress and Traveling with the Mach E

[JamieGeek]

I wish they would post "on the map" future locations. We all know there remains "dead" spots that need L3 CCS locations.

Plugshare does: Since its crowd sourced; when people notice charge stations going in they add them to the map.

(Yeah ok I'm a huge fan, and user of, Plugshare--my only affiliation with them is a happy user.)

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[dbsb3233]

If I remember correctly when I talked to EA I think they said at the 125 rate it charges 9 miles per minute.

That's controlled by the vehicle, not the charger. All the charger can do is provide the electricity (up to kW labeled), but the vehicle controls how much it accepts at any point. That's the charge curve. And for the Mach-e, we're still not sure precisely what the curve will look like. However clues they've given us suggest it will charge at max rate for only a brief time (likely early in the curve).

Ford states on the ER RWD (300 mile range) version, it will take 45 minutes for a 70% charge (10-80%). But that's likely the average for the charging curve. It should be faster at the start (like say, the first 10 minutes or so). We still don't really know the Mach-e's efficiency yet, but in the city it's probably somewhere around 3.5 miles per kWh (less for highway). The max 150 kW charge rate can add 2.5 kWh per minute (150 / 60 minutes). 2.5 * 3.5 = 8.75 miles. That's probably what EA was referring to when they quoted "9" to you: the maximum #miles the Mach-e is expected to add per minute at the peak of the charging curve (at 150 kW).

But remember that's surely only early in the charging curve. That will slow down significantly after you get to somewhere around the 30%-40% SOC range (typically). It has to for the average to slow to 45 minutes for a 70% charge.

Also note that if you're on a 125 kW charger rather than 150, that peak rate drops to 7.3 city miles (est.) added per minute early in the curve.

 

[dbsb3233]

That's 4 miles/kWh. Probably unlikely in the Mach-e. They're advertising 300 miles of range in a 98.8 kWh battery. Even if we assume a 10% reserve held back, that's 300 miles / 89 kWh = 3.37 miles/kWh. I'm hoping they're being a little conservative with that, thus I'm using a 3.5 estimate instead. But I think it's probably unrealistic to push that expectation all the way up to 4 under typical driving conditions.

Tesla starts dropping at 33% of charge.

Audi e-Tron at near 50% of charge.

Ford is likely going to be closer to e-Tron with it's 92kWh battery to Mach-E 98 kWh battery.

Unlikely. They've already said it charges "only briefly" at 150. Plus the charging curve math doesn't add up to what they've advertised if it were to stay at 150 for 50%. In fact, I'm actually expecting it to start tapering closer to 30%, extrapolating from the clues. But we'll just have to wait and see what it really is.

EA's are mostly 150kW with a couple 350kw and one Chademo/CCS at 50 kW.

But the post I was replying to was talking about 125, for whatever reason. Thus my addendum.

 

[silverelan]

Ford put Tesla up on the dartboard and that's the target. Therefore it's reasonable to assume that the Mach-E's 98.8 kWh(99kWh)battery pack charging profile will more or less match the 90/100 kWh packs of Tesla.

The 90/100 kWh Tesla packs charge between 135-150kW max for a short amount of time and take 45 mins to go from 10% to 80%.

If we're lucky, Ford is able to shave 10% off the 45 mins to 80% time but don't expect Model Y charge times or power rates.

 

[dbsb3233]

Ford put Tesla up on the dartboard and that's the target. Therefore it's reasonable to assume that the Mach-E's 98.8 kWh(99kWh)battery pack charging profile will more or less match the 90/100 kWh packs of Tesla.

The 90/100 kWh Tesla packs charge between 135-150kW max for a short amount of time and take 45 mins to go from 10% to 80%.

If we're lucky, Ford is able to shave 10% off the 45 mins to 80% time but don't expect Model Y charge times or power rates.

I'm hoping they can improve that 45 minutes for 10-80% a little too, with fine tuning down the road. But I'm less optimistic about that than I am about range improvements (i.e. miles/kWh efficiency). Reason being that Ford's range estimates were only based on computer models without any real-world cars to test.

But I'm guessing they were able to test the actual batteries (either Ford directly, or LG Chem providing that data to Ford). Such real-world data is probably more accurate (and less likely to improve much) than computer simulations for the entire car.

Just my speculation, anyway.

 

[dbsb3233]

Yes, miles are output. You said "Quick rule of thumb, 50kWh = 200 miles", which is why I responded about miles. Any calculation that tries to translate electricity to miles like you did there requires a miles per kWh conversion.

If that were the charging curve for the Mach-e, it would charge WAY faster than the 45 minutes 10-80% that Ford is advertising. And they'd surely be touting that.

That chart doesn't show what's below 30%, but since most BEVs charge at max rate from almost the bottom, I'll assume that extends to 10% too. That would mean the e-Tron charges at nearly full 150 kW from 10-80% (actually it looks more like 78% but let's just go with 80% to simplify it). 70% of 92 kWh = 64. A 150 kW charge rate adds 2.5 kWh per minute. 64 / 2.5 = 26 minutes.

Ford is saying it takes 45 minutes to charge from 10-80. Not 26. Therefore the charge curve is surely not even close to the e-Tron's.

And then there's this...

Mach-E will charge at 150 kw—briefly. Early materials about the Ford Mustang Mach-E haven’t been entirely clear if that vehicle will fast-charge at 150 kw, or whether it just needs 150-kw fast-charging hardware to charge at its peak rate somewhat less than that. Heiser verified that it indeed does charge at 150 kw, but only for a small window of time and state of charge. “At our price point it’s a position of strength,” Heiser said.

https://www.greencarreports.com/new...-how-project-went-from-milquetoast-to-mustang

 

[dbsb3233]

That's about what I'm expecting for the Mach-e too. 60.98 kWh in 44 minutes is 83 kW average. I'm assuming that was on a 150 kW max charger?

It's a good illustration of how the average is typically far lower than the max. Should be similar for the Mach-e. I'm not expecting more than about a quarter of the curve to be at the max 150 kW (like aound the 10-35% range). Nowhere close to the e-Tron which holds max until the 78% mark.

 

[dbsb3233]

So far it looks like Ford's been very upfront in setting expectations. 45 minutes for a 10-80% charge is what they've quoted, and it sounds right on par with Tesla (on a 150 kW charger).

 

[dbsb3233]

Just realized I coulda calculated it right from your numbers (max volts times max amps). Comes out right to 150 kW.

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