Delivery in Q1

[portlandg]

Smear campaign by competition. Anonymous source, casts a bit of doubt. I am expecting the worst ( delivery in 2021) but hoping for the best ( delivery before Christmas). Until I hear from FORD with a build/delivery date for MY car, the latter rules

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[portlandg]

Just received this from Ford

 

[Marcel]

Update Tweakers via Google translate:

Update: 14:00 - Ford confirms that the Dutch deliveries of the Mustang Mach-E have been postponed. "The corona virus has delayed Ford and its suppliers," said a company spokesperson. The car manufacturer expects to be able to produce the first cars in the United States at the end of this year, after which it will take another four weeks before the Mustang Mach-E is in the Netherlands. The first Dutch cars will only be delivered in the first quarter of 2021.

Ford Netherlands is in talks with Ford Europe 'whether we can offer our customers a helping hand'. The pre-orders of the Mustang Mach-E can be canceled free of charge, according to the spokesman. This may not be the case for customers who converted this pre-order into an order. According to the spokesperson, there were 2,000 customers who ordered the Mach-E for this year's delivery.

 

[eager2own]

Thanks for the updates. Given how important a 2020 delivery to the EU (and particularly to the Netherlands) was for Ford, this is not good news for those of us in the States either. I can't imagine US deliveries won't be equally delayed.

 

[portlandg]

Thanks for the updates. Given how important a 2020 delivery to the EU (and particularly to the Netherlands) was for Ford, this is not good news for those of us in the States either. I can't imagine US deliveries won't be equally delayed.

There is always the possibility of you in the US still getting some this year. Havent got so far to go to be delivered and Ford have 6 months to go

 

[eager2own]

There is always the possibility of you in the US still getting some this year. Havent got so far to go to be delivered and Ford have 6 months to go

I'm sorry for those who are more critically impacted by the shift, such as the Netherlands folks.
For me a shift isn't that critical, particularly since I'd already decided to wait for the GT.
However, it does make it harder for me to justify waiting for Ford's competitor to the Model Y Performance when it looks to be 18 or more months behind Tesla's launch. Although I'd ruled out the Y, now I'm really thinking about whether it's not worth waiting just a bit longer at that point for the competitors from Rivian and Porsche (the Macan BEV looks promising).

 

[dbsb3233]

This is one the things I hate about government inserting themselves into the timing of something like a vehicle purchase. I hate feeling "forced" into making a purchase decision based on when a tax credit is good, rather than when it's the right time to buy.

I've had reservations (no pun intended) about buying a radically different first-year model all along, but the tax credits drove me to put in a reservation rather than wait for (likely) a 2022. Now it looks like it's going to be a first-year model that they're also having to scramble and rush and figure out a lot of unplanned workarounds to get built. I'm leaning even more toward just waiting on a 2022 now.

 

[eager2own]

This is one the things I hate about government inserting themselves into the timing of something like a vehicle purchase. I hate feeling "forced" into making a purchase decision based on when a tax credit is good, rather than when it's the right time to buy.

OK, but that's a pretty broad statement. You could as easily say that the timing of when a child tax credit kicks in or whether it's better to buy a house in 2020 vs 2021 is the government inserting itself into your family planning or decisions to purchase a home. There's always going to be a date a new law kicks in or phases out.

 

[PSaulet]

Having pre-ordered late I expected nothing before the end of the year. Following Covid-19, I was convinced that we would not be delivered to France before 2021. Which therefore does not change my initial plan, especially since during this time the EU seems to be moving towards a cancellation of the VAT on EVs which will certainly last until the first half of 2021 ...
and during this time, Ford can revise the towing capacity of the Mach e ... !!! Double gain ...

 

[dbsb3233]

OK, but that's a pretty broad statement. You could as easily say that the timing of when a child tax credit kicks in or whether it's better to buy a house in 2020 vs 2021 is the government inserting itself into your family planning or decisions to purchase a home. There's always going to be a date a new law kicks in or phases out.

Agreed, it's not only EVs. There's a number of items that tax policy affects the purchase timing on. Not really a fan of any such artificial timing influence.

Most are more consistent though. The EV tax credits are perhaps the most extreme on the list, both because they often change dramatically from year-to-year, and because they're so huge. ($7500 or $10,000 is a huge amount in regards to a single purchase.)

But, it is what it is. I feel bad for the ones that are gonna miss out because of arbitrary tax dates. I originally had slight hope of getting mine before the end of 2020 as our state tax credit drops from $4000 to $2500. But I knew it was unlikely so I wasn't counting on that one. I know some of the European guys are hugely impacted by theirs though.

 

[eager2own]

Not really. What dbsb3233 is referring to is the significant impact that, for example, the change in how the Netherlands treats taxing of BEVs changes from 2020 to 2021. That's what impacts their decision on when to buy the car more so than whether Ford has a penalty from not selling the car in 2020 in compliance with emissions requirements.
So his point is that the Dutch government is significantly affecting that purchase decision. I don't disagree with him on that but, unless our laws are static and never change, there's always going to be a point at which a benefit or obligation kicks in, goes away, increases or decreases.

 

[timbop]

This is one the things I hate about government inserting themselves into the timing of something like a vehicle purchase.

This is the only part of your statement I disagree with. In the US the Federal government neither chose which company to prefer nor to prefer innovators over laggards: if a company makes BEV's they are eligible for the indirect subsidy on the first 200k they make no matter how long it takes them. If a company doesn't make a viable car that people want, they don't get the indirect investment. Early innovators had no advantage over late adopters, other than their ability to capture the market. The government doesn't decide who gets the investment, the free market does. It's a perfect example of government assisting capitalism in a free market in order to ensure everyone's best interests are served. I think Adam Smith would approve of the government assist in this case, because he would accept the scientific facts that burning fossil fuels cannot continue indefinitely. He would understand it is otherwise prohibitively expensive for an existing car company to do without that assistance.

In the case of the Netherlands there is a tax incentive whose expiration was determined long before the Mach E existed. I don't know since I don't live there, but my guess is that there was a movement against indefinitely subsidizing BEV's that got its way, and Ford is late to the party - which IS Ford's fault.

 

[eager2own]

His point was very clear that he feels governments are inserting themselves in that timetables for when tax credits are effective or not can drive consumer decisions one way or the other. He doesn't like that artificial or arbitrary deadline to be the deciding factor.
You wanted to instead digress to make a point about Trump/GOP dismantling emission standards, and I pointed out that it doesn't have to do with his comment... but I'm sure you won't let it go, so I will and leave it at that.

By the way, he didn't say they've changed the timetable or that the timetable hasn't been known. He's merely saying that, for example, having a deadline that some tax credit ends at midnight on Dec. 31 is artificial, and he doesn't think that should be what drives the market. That requirement may be known for years and not change, but it's still an artificial factor imposed by the government.

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