Return of the Mach

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I live in Northern NJ and was recently approached by a solar company (Trinity) about doing a no-cost installation of solar panels on my roof, which is funded by NJ's "Societal Benefits Charge". This charge is something we all inadvertently pay to NJ via our electric bills (google it). @timbop and the other NJ residents, was anyone else approached in this way for going solar and considered doing it?

It sounds too good to be true, and I'm one of those people that believes that if it sounds that way, it usually is, but I just wanted to poll the audience in here.

In any case, not paying PSE&G for electric anymore sounds quite enticing to me!
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gpgrim

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A second meter just for charging the car on a TOU plan makes a lot of sense. Here in NJ PSE&G hasn't figured that out yet; if you want a TOU plan then the whole structure has to be on one - if you have 2 meters then they BOTH have to be TOU. The TOU schedule is peak from 7AM to 9PM - which is equally ludicrous. At least that's how it was over a year ago when I called to figure out the best way to pay for charging
Huh, PG&E will at least let you have a TOU plan for the EV and a tiered plan for the home meter. For my current energy consumption, a home TOU wouldn't work.

Of course, just the time and effort figure out the best strategy, or say whether to go solar not, is going to blow away any savings for years. The level of detail involved in determining power charges is mind numbing. Here's a taste of how CA bills 1 kWh for the EV TOU charges:

Generation:
Summer $0.26927
Winter $0.10062
Distribution**:
Summer $0.22476
Winter $0.23930
Transmission* (all usage) $0.03704
Transmission Rate Adjustments* (all usage) ($0.00248)
Reliability Services* (all usage) $0.00017
Public Purpose Programs (all usage) $0.01575
Nuclear Decommissioning (all usage) $0.00093
Competition Transition Charges (all usage) $0.00004
Energy Cost Recovery Amount (all usage) $0.00032
Wildfire Fund Charge (all usage) $0.00580
New System Generation Charge (all usage)** $0.00442

They also add in a caveat that all those non-gen/trans charges have to exceed the minimum delivery charge of $0.32 per day per meter, so adding a meter doubles the minimum. If those charges don't exceed the minimum, say you have a small solar array, then adding the second meter just added at least $10 to the bill.

Financial torture by 1000 paper cuts. ?
 
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timbop

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I live in Northern NJ and was recently approached by a solar company (Trinity) about doing a no-cost installation of solar panels on my roof, which is funded by NJ's "Societal Benefits Charge". This charge is something we all inadvertently pay to NJ via our electric bills (google it). @timbop and the other NJ residents, was anyone else approached in this way for going solar and considered doing it?

It sounds too good to be true, and I'm one of those people that believes that if it sounds that way, it usually is, but I just wanted to poll the audience in here.

In any case, not paying PSE&G for electric anymore sounds quite enticing to me!
RUN AWAY FROM THEM! They are probably trying to sell you on the scam where you give them the roof for free, they own the panels, and you have to pay them for electricity for 25 years. They start out low/$0, but build in an annual increase that seems small and benign but adds up very quickly. They also keep all of the incentives/tax rebates. Even worse than you being locked in, when you go to sell your house the new homeowner is locked into the contract as well.

In my case I own the panels but took a low interest fixed rate loan to pay for them, and I can pay the note off at any time. Since the 26% federal rebate will be on next year's taxes, they computed the first 15 payments assuming I will put the rebate as a deferred down payment next year. As long as I do that then my payments will stay the same. I keep the TRECs.
 

Return of the Mach

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RUN AWAY FROM THEM! They are probably trying to sell you on the scam where you give them the roof for free, they own the panels, and you have to pay them for electricity for 25 years. They start out low/$0, but build in an annual increase that seems small and benign but adds up very quickly. They also keep all of the incentives/tax rebates. Even worse than you being locked in, when you go to sell your house the new homeowner is locked into the contract as well.

In my case I own the panels but took a low interest fixed rate loan to pay for them, and I can pay the note off at any time. Since the 26% federal rebate will be on next year's taxes, they computed the first 15 payments assuming I will put the rebate as a deferred down payment next year. As long as I do that then my payments will stay the same. I keep the TRECs.
Thanks for the heads-up, as it definitely sounded too good to be true.

I still want to hear what they have to say when they come out for a consultation. I'll keep everyone posted.
 

Nklem

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This is simplistic but true nonetheless: Go Solar because....Cost of system out of pocket was $26,000 (10KW) Tax Credits $11,760 (NYS and Fed). Cost now $14,240. I save $200/mo on electric bill and $100/mo on gasoline (with my EV) I save ~$3600.Yr. 14,240/3600=3.9 years for system payback and it's all gravy from there. Of course you have to use the tax credits to make it work etc. You can also claim part of reroofing on your spend. Lots of little details but as I said. This is the simplistic version.
Did you pay cash or finance the Array? If so, what term for the financing? Are you able to get all of the Tax Credits back into your hands? I am not doubting you in any way, just looking for some more information. Thanks!
 


gpgrim

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Did you pay cash or finance the Array? If so, what term for the financing? Are you able to get all of the Tax Credits back into your hands? I am not doubting you in any way, just looking for some more information. Thanks!
FWIW, I'm engaged with Tesla at the moment and they are offering 10 years at 0.99% APR for financing. Way cheaper than my HELOC, so a no brainer.

They are quoting me $19k for an 8.2 kW system, and then an additional 19k for 2 powerwalls with ~27 kWh capacity and able to drive my full load for a few days depending on solar array production. I'm a bit agnostic about the powerwalls, as attractive as it may be to have the integrated system, for 1/4 the cost, I could buy a more than capable Cummings NG/LPV generator, and given my historical down time, not lose any sleep over the carbon impact of such a beast. I suppose I should investigate the inter-op of a generator and solar system, but hopefully that's pretty seamless as well.
 

jjwolf

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I'm a bit agnostic about the powerwalls, as attractive as it may be to have the integrated system, for 1/4 the cost, I could buy a more than capable Cummings NG/LPV generator...
Can't you use the Powerwalls to store solar-generated electricity and discharge them into your EV at night?
 

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I joked about Intermountain Flash & Flicker as my electric supplier and it has come back to haunt me. Last night as I was doing the last oil change in my SVT Contour I heard a loud bang and the power went out for the whole street. The transformer between our house and our neighbors blew up. They finished replacing at 3:10 this morning. Learned a few things - there are 7200 volt supply lines to the transformer and can supply 1000 amps to the house. It makes me wonder when we will have DCFC at home for things like the F150 lightning or multiple BEV families.

It also made me want to get solar with a battery sooner than later. Watching these guys poking into the transformer box with 6 foot fiberglass poles did not inspire confidence. Plus, IREA has no TOU pricing or plans to do this and it took a 35 year old transformer failing to get any maintenance on the equipment here.
Same kind of thing motivated me to install solar with battery backup (and the generator input transfer switch option.) Two days after leaving on a three week, November vacation, heavy snow knocked out many area power lines. During the neighborhood's three day power outage (at -30F), the hot water baseboard heater line in the master bedroom froze. When the power came back on after the three days, the boiler began pumping hot steam into the bedroom - for 2 1/2 weeks! The bedroom side of the house and the garage underneath were flooded and soaked with boiling water. The upstairs, fortunately, has solid timber walls but the sheetrocked garage underneath was destroyed. After a two month drying out and repair, (and $25,000), the house was back to normal but the lesson was learned. A large LiFePO4 battery back up for solar power systems will add 8-10k, but it some situations it can be worth every penny, even without time of day utility rates.

Oh yeah, to keep on topic, the MME hasn't added anything to the electric bill. For the 8 sunny months the solar charges the car and for the winter months my plug-in at work provides the rest (and preheats the interior). Our standard rate for residential power is $.24 per kwh.
 
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gpgrim

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Can't you use the Powerwalls to store solar-generated electricity and discharge them into your EV at night?
Oh absolutely, the power walls are a completely flexible local load leveling system. As I understand it, the system will send all excess solar to the walls, then to the grid when at capacity. It will reverse when solar is inadequate to meet demand. Further, since it only makes sense to have TOU service in this case, you can also program the walls to charge from the grid at the lowest cost tier of the TOU, to top them off.

All this said, In CA, the CPUC requires companies like PG&E to use annual NEM calculations for solar homes, i.e. every 12 months you settle up on the difference between your consumption vs. your production, in units of kWh, not currency. In the months where you out produce demand, you bank kWh, and in the months you underproduce demand, you draw on you past production. At the end of the 12 month period, the difference turns into a check or a bill. You never want to receive that check, it's paid at wholesale rates, so economically not productive for offsetting your excess production investment, at least that's my take.

The powerwalls are a way to minimize short cycle fluctuations, but for the lengthy periods of underproduction, say Sept. or Jan. for me, they really aren't in play for that scale of load leveling. Where they appear to be attractive in NorCal is when we undergo high wind power shutdowns that can last from a few hours to a few days. That hasn't been much of an issue at my home, but also something that can also be addressed by a NG/LPV generator at a fraction of the cost, at least for investment. Not sure what a day's run in fuel would cost, prolly should look into that more seriously, as Tesla is going to start hounding me pdq.
 

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It just keeps getting better. These guys showed up at 1:30 this afternoon with 5 trucks and redid the transformer. After my neighbor put all the dirt and some of her flowers back, they dug it back up, took out the concrete slap, made a bigger hole and put this hideous fiberglass base in, lengthened the cables and slapped the new transformer on that! Another hour and half without power, same 6 foot fiberglass poles, same crane truck on my lawn.

The good news is that the Juice Box sends me texts when it is unpowered and when it comes back up, so at least that part is working well.
 

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A second meter just for charging the car on a TOU plan makes a lot of sense. Here in NJ PSE&G hasn't figured that out yet; if you want a TOU plan then the whole structure has to be on one - if you have 2 meters then they BOTH have to be TOU. The TOU schedule is peak from 7AM to 9PM - which is equally ludicrous. At least that's how it was over a year ago when I called to figure out the best way to pay for charging
TOU is generally not a good deal for people with solar panels...with 7a - 9p as peak, I would suspect it is only a good deal for the utility.
 

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TOU is generally not a good deal for people with solar panels...with 7a - 9p as peak, I would suspect it is only a good deal for the utility.
Panels or no, PSE&G's TOU is indeed only good for PSE&G
 

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We've had the Mach-E for 39 days now. In that time, we have logged 2,234 miles. Given 39 days and 2,234 miles, we have purchased a total of 404 KWH's of electricity at a cost of $61, and have used 33 KWH's of our 500 KWH FordPass bundle at Electrify America stations. Our rooftop solar system has provided all of the additional consumed power for free. In addition, in the same 39 days, we have also "banked" a net of 697 KWH's to "the grid" via our 7.56 KW solar system to be used at a later time. Our solar system is a little over six years old, and had paid for itself (ROI) in the first 2.5 years (already paid for long ago). We've used a Chevy Volt for almost 6 years now, and it has served it's purpose, but the Mach-E will allow us to use pretty much all of the over-production of our solar system for free (historically over-produce by 2,700 KWH's per year). We love this car in spite of it being an early first-year model.
 

gpgrim

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We've had the Mach-E for 39 days now. In that time, we have logged 2,234 miles. Given 39 days and 2,234 miles, we have purchased a total of 404 KWH's of electricity at a cost of $61, and have used 33 KWH's of our 500 KWH FordPass bundle at Electrify America stations. Our rooftop solar system has provided all of the additional consumed power for free. In addition, in the same 39 days, we have also "banked" a net of 697 KWH's to "the grid" via our 7.56 KW solar system to be used at a later time. Our solar system is a little over six years old, and had paid for itself (ROI) in the first 2.5 years (already paid for long ago). We've used a Chevy Volt for almost 6 years now, and it has served it's purpose, but the Mach-E will allow us to use pretty much all of the over-production of our solar system for free (historically over-produce by 2,700 KWH's per year). We love this car in spite of it being an early first-year model.
If you don't mind me asking, who did you contract with on your solar? Any significant shade issues?
 

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If you don't mind me asking, who did you contract with on your solar? Any significant shade issues?
Hey Gary, I'll send you a private conversation.
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