phil

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Looked on cars.com and all 5 of the GT listed within a 100 miles of my location are $2- 3,000 below MSRP.
Sort of interesting. I see 6 in my area. Four are "not priced", the other two are at, or just slightly below, MSRP. I am not seeing any of the Performance Edition listed, just regular GTs.
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MrClean

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Sort of interesting. I see 6 in my area. Four are "not priced", the other two are at, or just slightly below, MSRP. I am not seeing any of the Performance Edition listed, just regular GTs.
Same here, Los Angeles area.
 

harrysiii

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Same here, Los Angeles area.
They may not even be available. I picked mine up the day it was delivered and it's on their website now. Another guy waiting on his to come in is on their website with a $5k markup. Lol. They are both most likely also on cars.com and others.
 

Pushrods&Capacitors

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Ok...so as far as gearing and general point of which motor is doing what, which motor is probably drawing the most power and providing more of the acceleration on a Y/3 after 60mph? I just have a feeling the IM with more ability to do flux management allows it to be the better choice at some points in rev band and that is why it's not a dual IPM design rather than pure cost concerns. You can also get an IM to free wheel without drag.

Not an expert on these perm mag induction EV motors for sure...but somehow would think Tesla would have just used two if there wasn't some reason they were harder to use for broad acceleration into higher speed ranges. Not that they can't be used for max speed, but guessing it gets more complicated than if you have IM and IPM. Generally seems you end up with 3 and 4 motors once they are all IPM and things are very performance oriented.

And the Model 3 RWD cars seems to show even if you can juice them to have a good bit more power in that 0-60 range they start to equalize somehow as you push past that as far as the power to keep the acceleration party going. Seems the goal to go all IPM would be you need to be traction limited until you have pretty steep gearing so the torque drop isn't as big of deal.

Basically I don't think we can be certain the Mach-E design has a great way to just push more juice and get better power later in the rev range. It may just have a wind and such that means it runs out of air at higher revs...all to maximize it's lower rev grunt while keeping the cruise speed level as efficient as possible and such. And I get the impression some of this is why others have IM also or use a gearbox with more than one gear.

I generally don't think we are on as different pages as you are thinking.
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Jeeze guys, will one of you just block the other already? ???

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Davedough

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I don't remember if this has been posted or not, but at the risk of restoking this much gone over argument, I think personally the biggest question Ford needs to address is the advertising in the Model Description that I look at every day while I wait for any update that my car has been built.

Ford Mustang Mach-E My GT Performance Edition (GTPE) first track launch with videos, timeslip! 0-60 in 4.12s, 1/4 mile in 12.657 @ 100.02 mph 1631624204176


It clearly says upgraded front motor with enhanced performance, but the data we've seen shows that it barely has any enhancements over the other models, if any. So either it's false advertising or a problem with the platform.
 

Pushrods&Capacitors

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I don't remember if this has been posted or not, but at the risk of restoking this much gone over argument, I think personally the biggest question Ford needs to address is the advertising in the Model Description that I look at every day while I wait for any update that my car has been built.

Ford Mustang Mach-E My GT Performance Edition (GTPE) first track launch with videos, timeslip! 0-60 in 4.12s, 1/4 mile in 12.657 @ 100.02 mph 1631624204176


It clearly says upgraded front motor with enhanced performance, but the data we've seen shows that it barely has any enhancements over the other models, if any. So either it's false advertising or a problem with the platform.
Yep, that sucks, because they technically did enhance it for extra launch acceleration. The claim is accurate as written.
Since there is no specific 1/4 mile mph claim anywhere in any Ford info. I’ve seen there isn’t going to be any recourse if Ford doesn’t fix the trap speed/top end throttling issue.
But, I’m 99.9% sure they will fix it to run a decent amount better than the 4X’s trap speed. Otherwise they will be in a tougher spot to defend themselves.
 

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Yep, that sucks, because they technically did enhance it for extra launch acceleration. The claim is accurate as written.
Since there is no specific 1/4 mile mph claim anywhere in any Ford info. I’ve seen there isn’t going to be any recourse if Ford doesn’t fix the trap speed/top end throttling issue.
But, I’m 99.9% sure they will fix it to run a decent amount better than the 4X’s trap speed. Otherwise they will be in a tougher spot to defend themselves.
Hmmmm. This has me thinking. Does anyone have the breakdown by trim of Mach-e orders? What percentage of sales are the GT / GTPE trim (I know Ford has said it was higher than expected). Could give us an indication of how big this potential "issue" is and if Ford would even care.. If they can sell every Mach-e they can build as soon as it hits the lot, does it even really matter to them if the GTs are a small percentage of overall volume.
 

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Hmmmm. This has me thinking. Does anyone have the breakdown by trim of Mach-e orders? What percentage of sales are the GT / GTPE trim (I know Ford has said it was higher than expected). Could give us an indication of how big this potential "issue" is and if Ford would even care.. If they can sell every Mach-e they can build as soon as it hits the lot, does it even really matter to them if the GTs are a small percentage of overall volume.
I think it will matter. If people are expecting the GT will be quicker and faster than a Premium, and will keep up with a MY and they just don't deliver on that, those orders are going to dwindle. People aren't buying the GT for the badge....they are buying it for performance.
 

buzznwood

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Hmmmm. This has me thinking. Does anyone have the breakdown by trim of Mach-e orders? What percentage of sales are the GT / GTPE trim (I know Ford has said it was higher than expected). Could give us an indication of how big this potential "issue" is and if Ford would even care.. If they can sell every Mach-e they can build as soon as it hits the lot, does it even really matter to them if the GTs are a small percentage of overall volume.
When ford announced information on the reservations break downs, colors trims etc way back in march last year around 30% of the reservations where for the GT. With all the delays in releasing it has actually given Ford ample time during development to benchmark the GT across the competition.

Sure there have been unavoidable delays but reservation owners are only now starting to get vehicles that they reserved nearly TWO years ago, and 30% of reservations is not a small % so Ford has no excuses for half arsing it.
 

sotek2345

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I think it will matter. If people are expecting the GT will be quicker and faster than a Premium, and will keep up with a MY and they just don't deliver on that, those orders are going to dwindle. People aren't buying the GT for the badge....they are buying it for performance.
Right, but Mach-e sales are already pretty low (as a fraction of Ford's business). If the GT is only ~30% of Mach-e sales, is it worth fixing (for Ford)?
That is on the order of half a percent of their annual sales.

The major impact I could see is a PR and advertising one impacting future EV sales (Lightning), but that already has very strong demand and low planned build rates, so I am not sure how big of an impact it would be.

Edit: Corrected numbers to 30% as noted above
 

Pushrods&Capacitors

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Right, but Mach-e sales are already pretty low (as a fraction of Ford's business). If the GT is only ~30% of Mach-e sales, is it worth fixing (for Ford)?
That is on the order of half a percent of their annual sales.

The major impact I could see is a PR and advertising one impacting future EV sales (Lightning), but that already has very strong demand and low planned build rates, so I am not sure how big of an impact it would be.

Edit: Corrected numbers to 30% as noted above
Yes, it is worth it and of paramount importance. EV is the way forward and Ford knows that bad optics on anything EV/MME related could sour consumers on Ford EVs, regardless of the reason. Because you know Mustang coupes are going EV before we know it as well.

MME Project Manager, Dave Pericak’s edict to the team was that it has to be a Mustang. A GT doesn’t shit the bed in the 1/4 compared to an Ecoboost, or previously, a V-6. By that rationale it has to be fixed. And I’m sure they’re doing it as we complain non-stop.
 

blue92lx

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Right, but Mach-e sales are already pretty low (as a fraction of Ford's business). If the GT is only ~30% of Mach-e sales, is it worth fixing (for Ford)?
That is on the order of half a percent of their annual sales.

The major impact I could see is a PR and advertising one impacting future EV sales (Lightning), but that already has very strong demand and low planned build rates, so I am not sure how big of an impact it would be.

Edit: Corrected numbers to 30% as noted above
I don't know about that. When you're making changes to go EV and your most iconic platform is not performing up to par I think it'll be an issue. Especially since they're leading their EV charge with the Mustang name which already pissed off a bunch of people with an electric SUV. You can't use your most prominent landmark name and tarnish it right at the beginning and expect people to keep looking at Ford if they can't get that part right.
 

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I think it will matter. If people are expecting the GT will be quicker and faster than a Premium, and will keep up with a MY and they just don't deliver on that, those orders are going to dwindle. People aren't buying the GT for the badge....they are buying it for performance.
Exactly.

Look at the “previous vehicles” of the regular Mach E owners: lots of Prius drivers.

Look at the current vehicles of the people ordering GTPE: Mustang GT, GT350, GT500, Chevy SS, etc

The target audience is drastically different.

It also explains why the people currently driving performance cars are screaming WTF!!! While the former Prius owners are scratching their heads not understanding why people are complaining.
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