Why owning any new EV today won't be a long-term ownership for many

Mirak

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Some of us are older, and have owned many cars over the years. For many of us, a standard ownership period was maybe 8 - 10 years, sometimes more, the idea of running the vehicle into the ground. We did that with many, but not all, of our vehicles. Traded in an old minivan during Cash for Clunkers in 2009, traded in a 15 year old Explorer to buy our 2013 F-150.

Decisions were easier. Am I happy with the vehicle's repair costs, operating costs, and appearance? Do I have the yearn for something new? And maybe, just maybe, is there some "new thing" that I have to have?

Now, with technology rapidly changing, that timeframe for many of us is going to get much shorter. I was already planning a new strategy as we entered retirement of owning new vehicles every few years, especially as we have access to Ford's A-Plan. The current market had me thinking of accelerating that, because of the combination of driving a newer vehicle coupled with making thousands in profits.

In our 8 months of charging experience, we came upon more than a handful of older Level 2 chargers, barely capable of charging the Mach-E from 10% to 100% overnight, such as at a hotel. We also realized that often it's not worth the trouble of finding a slower level 2 charger if you're only going to be somewhere for an hour or so. One hotel's level 2 charger was inoperative, while their Tesla charger might have worked (no Tesla Tap in our trunk yet). A semi-regular destination hotel has a few Level 2 chargers, upgraded after we stayed there in 2019 and had issues with their obsolete chargers. They put in new chargers which we discovered when we returned in 2021. Sounds great, right? Except they are only 5.3kW. Plugging in at 10% didn't give us a full charge by morning.

This was recently reinforced as we plan a trip to a state park with our son and his family, and decide whether to take the Mach-E or the F-150. Considered cost, considered time to get there (11 hour trip, with stops, in F-150, add at least 2 hours with the Mach-E). Then I started looking at charging opportunities at the destination. There's several DC chargers within 30 minutes or less, but the park has an EV charger. That's where PlugShare comes in, and I realize that the charger is a Level 1 charger, putting out a whopping 1.8kW of pure, raw power powered by 120v. Do the math - with a 10% loss in efficiency, that's 1.62kW. Take the 88kW battery, arrive with 20%, and go to 100% to leave. 88 x .8 = 70.4. 70.4 / 1.62 = 43.5 hours. Even if I didn't need the car every day, hogging the charger for 2 full days is pretty rude.

Luckily the campground has many RV sites, each with a nice 50 amp 14-50 outlet. I've gotten them to agree to let us use one as long as they have one open, even though we're going to be in a cabin. We'll use the portable charger and charge up overnight.

This reinforces to make sure you review your planned stops in PlugShare, and always check with your lodging destination as to what chargers exist, whether they operate, and what speed they operate at. Make sure you talk to someone knowledgeable (took us 4 attempts via email to get actual facts from the park office).

Technology is rapidly changing. Batteries, charging speeds, navigation and driving aids. The model of driving a vehicle into the ground is going to change for many as they realize they can cut a trip's duration significantly and charge less often in the years to come. I'm thinking we'll carefully watch technology for the next few years, and dump any current technology EV once the range doubles or the charging speed halves, or both.
It's not exactly uncommon for people, as they get older and have more disposable income, to turn over cars more frequently. And I'm all in favor of that, but I don't agree with your thesis that rapidly changing technology will necessitate people trading in their EVs more frequently.

You're right that road-tripping with the Mach E, or any EV, can currently be a pain. But that's almost entirely because of the poorly developed charging infrastructure. Even though the MME is capped at 150kW speed, that would usually be perfectly fine if there were a lot more chargers capable of delivering more than a measly 5-6kW. And that is going to happen in the next year or so.

So I still view the Mach E as another 7-10yr car, and I don't see a need to upgrade in the next few years to 800v, etc. The road trip charging time-savings aren't a big enough deal to keep chasing the latest and greatest. And we're still several years away from the next commercially viable leap in battery chemistry to meaningfully reduce weight and extend range. I also don't feel the need to have the latest iPhone or TV or any other piece of electronics every year.
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johnhmcgrath

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All good points. But one to add is that as EVs improve, so will charging infrastructure, improving the utility of current cars.

We have a MME CR1 on order (arriving by 4/1, supposedly) and plan to drive it into the ground. Maybe not the 17 years we got from our Prius (which is still going strong), but I sure hope more than eight. For our rare long road trip we'll just rent an appropriate car--ICE for now, hopefully eventually a longer-range/faster-charging electric.
 
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SpaceEVDriver

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One of the biggest benefits of EVs is that as infrastructure improves, so do the EVs. That's not something that's available to gasoline-powered vehicles (anymore). I can still remember when any road trip required many long (hour+) stops.

  • A 120 mile road trip would take all day.
  • First, most of our vehicles were junkers and would barely keep up with 55 mph traffic; I'd say 40 mph was typical.
  • Then they would overheat, requiring a stop at some random person's ranch alongside the highway to beg for some water.
  • Then we'd have to stop for a bathroom break.
  • Then we'd get back on the road only to have to stop at the next gas station because the vehicle was a 7 mpg vehicle.
  • At the gas station, we'd have another overheating event and a long series of bathroom breaks.
  • We would stop for lunch while the vehicle was overheating again...
  • Back on the road to repeat it all.
  • A trip across the Mojave Desert could only be made at night, when most gas stations were closed, 24-hour service didn't exist, credit cards didn't exist, and cash handed to a person was the only way to get gas. So we would have to put a 5-gallon jug (or two) of gasoline in the trunk.
  • Any stop would last a minimum of 30-60 minutes, sometimes longer.

Today, with the infrastructure improvements, we can drive faster, more safely, go farther between refueling, and because I'm not driving junkers, I can go for years without overheating.

I view EVs as much further along than the gasoline vehicles and infrastructure from my childhood.
 

jeffdawgfan

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Have had our MME for almost a year now. Except for one time to ensure it worked, we have never DCFC'ed our EV. Always charge at home at night (usually 2-3 times a week). The one exception is that several of my wife's favorite stores have free Volta level 2 chargers that we can plug into for an hour or so of free charging if we are going to be there anyway. For us, a DCFC would only be used for a long trip. Since we pull our RV with my pickup for long trips that does not apply. Different folks gonna have different situations but the general public does not understand that 99% of your charging will be done at home.
 


Nklem

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Yes, but those fancy headlights are also making their way into ICE vehicles, along with other common features like driving technologies. I can justify pushing an ICE longer than an EV based on range and charging times though.
If it's like the Dodge Ram trucks, the headlight is not serviceable. Bulb out $900 headlight replacement. One of my only reasons for getting a Ford ESP plan. Its the cost of a headlight replacement!
 

Mach1E

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Competition drives innovation. To this point...relatively speaking, Tesla has been more focused, IMO, on scaling because they didn't have the competition from a technology standpoint. The race will now be on to get that faster charge, higher capacity, more speed, etc....it's going to be highly competitive soon where it hasn't been for the last decade.
Sure, but the limits in technology and the problems they’re trying to overcome are nothing new:

Cost
Weight
Energy Density
Charging speeds
Safety tech/autonomous driving

I dunno. It doesn’t seem like the 5 year old cars are that outdated and I see nothing in the horizon that makes me think things will change at a faster pace than they have.

Sure, there will be more models to pick from. But I just don’t expect our cars to be obsolete.

The tech that would make them obsolete is all theoretical at this point. I’ll add it to my wish list right behind cold fusion.
 

SpaceEVDriver

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J-orange

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Even better! And what do the 2022 cars do that the 9 year old models don’t?
Android Auto and Apple car play and some have it wirelessly. Adaptive cruise control on many more models. Self-parking. Most of these are luxury touches, that don't move the needle much.
 

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It will take a while for a 100% EV to be a smarter long term buy than a PHEV. Give me a PHEV that has a fast charging 50kwh battery (at least 100 miles of EV range) and an Atkinson cycle engine and I'll be all set.

A PHEV is the safest bet for just about any commute.

Honestly the Toyota Rav 4 Prime is close to having my optimal drivetrain. Just need more battery and then some more power to go along with it.
More power on the rav 4? Have you driven one. I have the 2021 mme and the Rav4 prime. The R4P is a rocket when you are considering it is an awd conventional syled suv type vehicle with great ground clearance. I will admit I would like to have more power on electric only mode but when you kick in motor and electric it is very quick. Of course you are right in the long run as we always want more power especially when it does not cost you much to use it. I do agree I would like more than 42 miles with ev but I have gotten as high as 56 in the summer and down to 32 in winter. I think Toyota is the only one now to give us a 10 year 150k mile battery warranty, which is good if you are going to keep the car.
 

Hplbiking

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Not sure I would say tech is Rapidly changing. And I still have my 9 year old Focus EV - the kids drive it. That came with 75 mile range in 2012. In 2016ish it grew to about 125 miles. And now 6 years later we are at about 250 or double. Which is WAY more than I need for about 99.9% of my trips. I do not really care if range grows or charging speed increase. If I need to take a trip that will require more than one change (500 miles or more I would probably fly. Same with a gas car after about 500 miles, driving no longer becomes enjoyable unless you are site seeing all the way and not on a schedule.
 

bpbailey

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Only pushback to this argument is if you are using your EV entirely for local/suburban/city driving. If that is the case and you seldom drive over 100 miles a day and can plug in everynight at home, then I think you could keep your EV for 10 or 20 years and not really care too much about eventual battery degradation. For long trips, having an ICE/Hybrid makes sense for the next few years, but as EV tech and charging infrastructure improves, maybe in 2025 or so, 2 EV households will become more common
You describe my scenario exactly. Yes, EV technology will advance significantly, but if the current EV technology meets your needs for the long-term, there is no need to switch. Case in point: I purchased an iPhone X over 4 years ago and, yes, iPhone technology has grown significantly, but my iPhone X still meets my needs.
 

Mach1E

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Not sure I would say tech is Rapidly changing. And I still have my 9 year old Focus EV - the kids drive it. That came with 75 mile range in 2012. In 2016ish it grew to about 125 miles. And now 6 years later we are at about 250 or double. Which is WAY more than I need for about 99.9% of my trips. I do not really care if range grows or charging speed increase. If I need to take a trip that will require more than one change (500 miles or more I would probably fly. Same with a gas car after about 500 miles, driving no longer becomes enjoyable unless you are site seeing all the way and not on a schedule.
Did the tech change or did they just put a bigger battery in it?

I agree that more range and faster charging aren’t necessary for me. Each persons situation is different.

Only thing on my wish list that could make me consider changing is better performance. But it’s not really a tech change as you can always buy a faster car now.
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