dbsb3233

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Thanks.

That's using a pretty generous 4.07 miles/kWh assumption. I doubt the Mach-e will get that as a combined number, but maybe during favorable city conditions.

I agree that 47 miles per 10 minutes seems too low though. I'm now guessing that's the overall average (maybe 10%-80%), not the peak charging speed at low SOC. Otherwise it doesn't seem to add up.
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dbsb3233

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But that's not "for an hour", is it? They advertise the max instantaneous rate (as Ford does for the Mach-e at 150 kW), but not for a full hour. I think they all taper at some point (some more than others, or course).
 

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FWIW, this thread is exactly why the average Joe isn't shopping for a BEV .. it is just too confusing to understand charging. I really wish Ford or heck someone would just simplify it. Allegedly, Sync 4 will, I guess we'll see.
 

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FWIW, this thread is exactly why the average Joe isn't shopping for a BEV .. it is just too confusing to understand charging. I really wish Ford or heck someone would just simplify it. Allegedly, Sync 4 will, I guess we'll see.
Honestly I don't think so. The average Joe shows up at the dealership and drives away with a car on the lot.

You're comparing that to people interested in a car not available for a good 10 months trying to eek out every last detail, parsing every clue given by the manufacturer, searching the internet for scraps of info.

The average Joe just buys a car to drive. They only ask simple questions and don't care about the details (such as the max charging rate, or the taper). Its "can I drive this to aunt Becky's across the state?" Yes or no--"well lets look at plugshare.com--yes".
 


dbsb3233

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FWIW, this thread is exactly why the average Joe isn't shopping for a BEV .. it is just too confusing to understand charging. I really wish Ford or heck someone would just simplify it. Allegedly, Sync 4 will, I guess we'll see.
I think Ford is trying to simplify it, when they say "charges at 47 miles in 10 minutes", and "300 miles of range". The problem is those things can't be simplified without being off significantly much of the time. There's such wide variance at different points of charging and driving that a single number just doesn't do it justice as people start to learn more about it.
 

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I can't even believe we're entertaining charging time as a real thing when it comes to EVs. These companies should focus on making the car itself and standardize their battery cooling system designs, then team with battery makers to make the battery pack hot swappable. In reality, the winning team is going to be the one that can team with big oil to use their properties (gas stations) to house battery pack swap buildings. You drive your EV in, the robot hot swaps your battery pack. You drive away at 100%. In and out in 1 minute or less. To do this takes cunning and forethought and money. But if you do it, you kill any other brand making cars that charge at a station for 20-60 mins. They're dead.
 

dbsb3233

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Honestly I don't think so. The average Joe shows up at the dealership and drives away with a car on the lot.

You're comparing that to people interested in a car not available for a good 10 months trying to eek out every last detail, parsing every clue given by the manufacturer, searching the internet for scraps of info.

The average Joe just buys a car to drive. They only ask simple questions and don't care about the details (such as the max charging rate, or the taper). Its "can I drive this to aunt Becky's across the state?" Yes or no--"well lets look at plugshare.com--yes".
While I agree with most of that, there's a big caveat. The Average Joe is also already familiar with the normal ICE paradigm and how their own driving needs fit within it. If they weren't, they'd be doing a lot more than just walking in and driving away with a car on the lot. They'd have a lot of research to do first for ICE vehicles too.

It's the fact that BEVs are so new and different to most people is what triggers so much research. Plus the fact they the have a $10k-$20k premium on the price. That also helps drive people to make sure it's really what they want and need.
 

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If there's a gas station owner with a leaky or old tank system, befriend him with a bunch of battery packs and a robot, stored under the ground, where it's the same temperature. Is this making sense people? I mean, really? We're using chargers for the car? Stupid.

Order a coffee while you wait for the car to get a fresh pack. Drive away. Win.
 

dbsb3233

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I'd add a couple more to that list...

3. How dramatically mileage (thus range) drops at 75 MPH interstate speeds (i.e. your #2 from the first list)
4. How long a "fast" charger still takes, and how often you need to use them if taking a long trip

I still think the primary mainstream market for BEVs will be suburban homeowners (with a garage for secure/dedicated charging) who have another ICE vehicle in the household (thus can dedicate the BEV to around-home usage only with almost entirely home charging and almost no retail charging). But that can still be 30% of the entire automobile market (5 million vehicles/year in the US). Nothing wrong with that.
 

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That's not everyone, though. The main thing people worry about with EVs is range anxiety. If you could just have a station swap your battery, there's no need to worry. If you didn't want to stop, you wouldn't need to stop any longer than a minute.
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