Would you pay for a Tesla NACS retrofit?

[Jimrpa]

at least you don't have a Chademo car.

Oh! You mean LaserDiscs! ????

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[Jimrpa]

I've always been confused why this is still the format war people cite when blu ray vs hddvd was much more recent.

Granted I was born in the 90s

Blu Ray? HD DVD? I don’t even have a DVD player anymore. I just wait for what I want to come available on one of the streamers (now if Bezos would get off his stupid yacht and put UFO out there and green light another season of the expanse ???)

 

[Jimrpa]

Depends on the price and if they do a proper retrofit where the connector is in the back tail light. I'm definitely interested in a proper retrofit.

I don’t want anything else inside the lights, making them even more expensive to replace. And @ChasingCoral has already explained why the perimeters of the vehicle are really bad locations for charger ports.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

I understand your point. Just a couple of thoughts:

• If Elon crawled out of his Twitter lair and unilaterally changed NACS, then called (twitted?) bill ford and gloated “hahaha!!! You foolishly fell for my master plan! Now your cars can’t charge!”, ford owners with NACS cars would just have to use their NACS to CCS adaptors
• Musk would be cutting off a revenue stream. What’s the upside for him? He loses revenue and worsens the public image of his products and himself

Even given those points, I agree that it would be good if musk made NACS an open standard, instead of just “royalty free IP”.

It wouldn't be the first time someone with power did something petty or dumb just because they felt like it.

But yeah, as low-probability as it may be, my generally very positive experience with CCS means I have no reason to convert my car into a riskier format. I have nothing to gain.

 

[superdave80]

Dave....you will never going to see350KW coming out of any station. This is another " great lie ", a pipedream, pie in the sky stories. Anyways your vehicle, any EV out there today, is not capable to charge at that rate.

We were only talking about the charger capability, not the limitation of the car itself.

 

[buzznwood]

Dave....you will never going to see350KW coming out of any station. This is another " great lie ", a pipedream, pie in the sky stories. Anyways your vehicle, any EV out there today, is not capable to charge at that rate. These stations who advertise 350KW capability, can't even come close. If any maintain that kind of rate of charge, won't last long. That is the problem with EA. Their 350KW operate at 80-90KW continuous to preserve themselves. That is the only way they can stay functional. 250KW at a steady rate is something I can deal with. Anyways the Mach E and the Lightning are rated at around 150-200KW rates of charge. At 150KW steady rate, my Mach E will be charged to 80%, in around 30 min and my Lightning in 40 to 45min. Plenty of time for a bathroom break, grab a sandwich or play games on the screen.
EA, EV GO, ChargePoint, and many others can't even touch V3 or V4.
In most places where you have EA stations, withing a short distance there are Tesla stations that triple and quadruple in numbers.
There are areas where there are no CCS chargers of any kind, but Tesla superchargers.
I would like to be able to tap to this newly available resource, called Tesla Superchargers.

You do know people have had 350kw charging lucids? Yes it may have been briefly but the stations have still delivered.

Swapping from one connector to another isn't going to magically make the mach-e charge better If anything the more slow charging non Tesla vehicles starting turning up at Tesla super chargers either using magic-docks or adapters / adoption of the connector the worse its going to become as while in some parts of the country the Tesla super chargers may be a ghost town in others they are already a crowded mess with just the Teslas.

 

[Nikos]

You do know people have had 350kw charging lucids? Yes it may have been briefly but the stations have still delivered.

Swapping from one connector to another isn't going to magically make the mach-e charge better If anything the more slow charging non Tesla vehicles starting turning up at Tesla super chargers either using magic-docks or adapters / adoption of the connector the worse its going to become as while in some parts of the country the Tesla super chargers may be a ghost town in others they are already a crowded mess with just the Teslas.

Do agree with your statement. No argument here.
In the SE though, I haven't seen this ( crowded charging stations), yet. What I am seeing is Tesla lots underutilized for the majority of the time, even on busy holiday weekends.

 

[TGIF]

Oh! You mean LaserDiscs! ????

I loved my LaserDisc player! I was so sad when it bit the dust. I couldn’t find anyone to repair it.

 

[Arjan]

For Europe it is a whole different ballgame. We actually have a CCS standard. So even Tesla is using CCS over here. I am curious if we Europeans will notice anything regarding this decision / agreement.

 

[Reign of Ravens]

For Europe it is a whole different ballgame. We actually have a CCS standard. So even Tesla is using CCS over here. I am curious if we Europeans will notice anything regarding this decision / agreement.

Europe as a whole seems to be better about forcing standards. Apple is moving away from the Lightning port and to USB-C ports, which based on the reports I have read is due to mandates from the European Union. I wouldn't be surprised if EU regulations are also why Teslas sold in Europe use the CCS2 connector instead of NACS, and why Tesla even decided to brand its charger port as the "North American Charging Standard," as opposed to just... "electric vehicle charging standard."

I think the timing of this is incredibly interesting. I don't know enough about the chargers to say whether NACS is superior to CCS or not, but the plug sizes are certainly significant. Yet it seemed like we were finally settling on CCS as the standard (ChaDeMo is officially dead), and even Tesla was adding it to their charging stations, and now this... Ford doing this elevates NACS above CCS, although it's still unclear if Ford intends to have both CCS and NACS ports on the vehicle (seems unlikely but nothing has been officially confirmed).

I don't really care which standard we go. The internet is ablaze with opinions that Tesla will make money off of this, but even years ago Tesla had made remarks about not charging for it. In November 2022 they officially declared that they were trying to make it an open standard. Sure, Tesla will make money if you use a Supercharger station, but I do not believe that just having a car with the NACS port means that Tesla earned something from its sale. All I really want is for a standard to be set, so that we can work toward getting more charging stations installed and available, and ideally with as little fuss as possible (people really don't want to deal with adapters). I hope this does make NACS the standard, even though I'll need adapters for my home J1772 chargers... because the alternative is that NACS and CCS continue to compete, just slowing the advancement of charging infrastructure.

 

[HuntingPudel]

For Europe it is a whole different ballgame. We actually have a CCS standard. So even Tesla is using CCS over here. I am curious if we Europeans will notice anything regarding this decision / agreement.

I don't think so since there are directives in place already that forced Brand T to use CCS-2, which was standards and committee-driven, rather than Brand T's ad-hoc connector and communications interface. ??

 

[Nikos]

Europe as a whole seems to be better about forcing standards. Apple is moving away from the Lightning port and to USB-C ports, which based on the reports I have read is due to mandates from the European Union. I wouldn't be surprised if EU regulations are also why Teslas sold in Europe use the CCS2 connector instead of NACS, and why Tesla even decided to brand its charger port as the "North American Charging Standard," as opposed to just... "electric vehicle charging standard."

I think the timing of this is incredibly interesting. I don't know enough about the chargers to say whether NACS is superior to CCS or not, but the plug sizes are certainly significant. Yet it seemed like we were finally settling on CCS as the standard (ChaDeMo is officially dead), and even Tesla was adding it to their charging stations, and now this... Ford doing this elevates NACS above CCS, although it's still unclear if Ford intends to have both CCS and NACS ports on the vehicle (seems unlikely but nothing has been officially confirmed).

I don't really care which standard we go. The internet is ablaze with opinions that Tesla will make money off of this, but even years ago Tesla had made remarks about not charging for it. In November 2022 they officially declared that they were trying to make it an open standard. Sure, Tesla will make money if you use a Supercharger station, but I do not believe that just having a car with the NACS port means that Tesla earned something from its sale. All I really want is for a standard to be set, so that we can work toward getting more charging stations installed and available, and ideally with as little fuss as possible (people really don't want to deal with adapters). I hope this does make NACS the standard, even though I'll need adapters for my home J1772 chargers... because the alternative is that NACS and CCS continue to compete, just slowing the advancement of charging infrastructure.

I agree, Europe is a different kind of beast. Until you spend a considerable amount of time in the continent, you will understand some of its quirks.
When EU came together and the nations were joining together had and have to follow the EU protocols. That is one of puting it. It is hard to get a consensus out of 27 nations. So committees are formed and decide about a common standard. Keep that in mind also while we talking about CCS vs NACS standard. EU will pass a standard that is beneficial to EU manufacturers.
That is what Boeing realized that their EU customers stoped buying their aircraft. All EU nations followed the protocol. Buy EU products.
Consequently, a committee, devised the CCS standard. A reminder first.....EU manufacturers had no plans of building EV vehicles. Tesla was a disruptor. Tesla became a pain on their side.
If you remember, BMW, DaimlerBenz(Mercedes), VW had only insults to throw at Tesla and its plans to manufacture EVs. When they could convince the public otherwise, they got their hands on an S model from European Tesla customers and disassembled it to find how to copy the technology. They even got a hold of Model 3s and airfreight them to Europe for teardowns. That is when they realized they couldn't use their CCS standard to recharge the Tesla vehicles. So....CCS standard was introduced mostly for the benefit of the EU manufacturers.
Mandates in EU mean that you will follow them either you like it or not. Financial incentives are also available. Here in NA, we passed the infrastructure bill, and if you can adhere to the provisions of its content you can get a financial benefit. It does not say anywhere that Tesla has to adhere to anything either you like it or not.
Tesla will open up their network when they seem comfortable doing it irregardless if any financial benefits from that bill.
As we heard from the Tweeter conversation between Elon and Jim, the CCS plug was a committee concoction. I do believe though that EU vehicle manufacturers had something to do with it. When you get caught unaware, surprised and with your pants down, you will do anything to catch up with the disruptor(Tesla).
Hey.....they even convinced CA that their Diesel Green ICE vehicles were better for the environment. You know all by now how this played out. Sorry for all the folks who trusted them with those products. Diesel is not Green.
Anyways.....lots has happened since then.
I don't doubt that the CCS standard can do what they claim it can do. The limitations are with the vehicles also. I want to try the NACS also.
We may all be pleasantly surprised.
I am ready for something different.
CCS has so far not lived up to its advertised potential. Reasons are numerous.
Let us see what this NACS has to offer.

 

[KevinS]

If the U.S. had a reliable CCS-based network, this never would have happened.

I think it's also in reaction to Ford dealer's willingness (or lack of) to install charging stations.

Between balkanized ownership of stations and car manufacturers offering free charging to new owners, charging on the road is an extremely poor experience for Ford's customers.

I view this as Farley's admission that it's not going to improve anytime soon, and that glomming on to Tesla's network is the best chance for Model e to succeed.

 

[bbulkow]

I would buy an adapter. I bought all the adapters I could find (three different 240v adapters, such as the one for welding machines, because I do hang out at metal shops so grabbing some L2 with a plug converter to 15-50 would be an option in a pinch). Adapters get you out of trouble.

I wouldn't buy a full conversion kit for two main reasons.

First, CCS has been good to me. Sure I had to learn the ins and outs: EVGo 200kw chargers are 200a 1000v and charge a mache at 70 at most, where an EA 150kw is 500v and 300a and charges a mache faster. I wish / hope that each app gets better: Google Maps gets better at picking chargers (show me the wait time in the overview), show me the chargers with the top speed for my car, show me the number of unique working fast chargers for my car, etc. The state of these apps is kind of hilarious (6 charging stations! Oh, wait, there are 3 charging stations with two cables that can't be used at the same time! DOH!). Or use the Ford app with best charging and inferior navigation so it gets lost. Or have three nav apps running, one that is charge state aware (ABRP), one with best charger information (ford), one with best routing (Google), all at the same time. But it's pretty good (much better than a year ago when everything was broken), hoping it'll be better a year from now.

Second, I just don't road trip. I drove a 300 miler during pandemic, once. I have done a couple 250's in the last 5 years. I do one camping thing but it really needs more space, the ICE CRV with trailer is being kept for this reason. The break-even for flying is between 200 miles and 300 miles, depending slightly on the destination and the frequency of flights. Anything longer, I fly and rent for the last mile (rented a tesla for this reason last week! Realized how much I like the MachE after the first 35 seconds). This factored greatly into wanting a 300 mile range car (250 effective real world when you take 10 ~ 80 patterns into account). In my first 5k miles, I rapid charged because I needed to exactly once and I probably didn't even need that. I've done rapid charges a few times for sport in case I need to. With charging at home, I don't need to.

HOWEVER, right now I am fortunate to have more money than time. I forsee, or at least hope, during the life of this car I will flip to having more time than money. When that happens, my love of travel may have me spending time enjoying life on the road (I do love a great road trip), in which case I will want All The Charge Networks. But that's in the future, the landscape will change, and it would have to change pretty far to prefer a built-in vs an adapter. Adding an adapter to the bag of tricks would seem The Way.

Especially if the adapter had about 3 feet of copper making connecting to a current Tesla supercharger duck soup.

 

[dtbaker61]

Thoughts?

IF I took more than 1 road-trip per month on Interstates where Tesla Superchargers existed, and CCS DCFC were not available, I'd consider getting a Tesla->CCS adapter if they were available and cost less than $250.

But I dont take long road-trips in my Mach-e, so I don't have any interest in either an adapter or a port swap-over.

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