Is the Mach-E really 7 years behind Tesla?

[Nak]

It's almost funny how people are so convinced of the pros and cons of the Mach-e vs the Y--on both sides. Neither car is in the consumers hands yet. It's one thing to have an opinion on which will be better. It's another to say you know your opinion to be fact. LOL. I'll take delivery of my performance Y, because I'm ditching ICE and the GT won't be available for a while. When the GT comes out, I'll compare the two and if the GT is superior, for me, I'll trade in the Y. If it's not, I won't. I'm sorry, it's just not possible at this point to have an informed opinion as to which will be better.

I also find it funny when people on either side get upset when you try and tell them that either car might be superior to the other in any particular metric. Of course each will have strengths and weaknesses. Duh. Some we know, some we can't know until we can drive both cars. Some of the features will be strengths to some and weaknesses to others. Let's take the lip on the trunk. For me, that's a weakness of the Mach-e, because I like sitting there. For someone else that will be a strength of the Mach-e because shit won't slide out if you're parked on a hill and open the hatch. That though, is something we know now. We know the Mach-e is better looking and we know the Y is more efficient and charges way faster. Denying either of those simple facts is just stupid. (OK, looks are subjective, but most are going to find the Mach-e better looking.) The keypad lock on the Mach-e is a big advantage to me. I kite board and kite surf--a lot--and not having to carry a card with me to unlock the car is a very nice feature.

Which will win in a drag race? Some don't care. Even if you do care, we won't know the answer to this till we can actually drag race them. Which is better, and is Ford seven years behind Tesla? We. Don't Know. We will know when we can compare them. For me, that comparison is probably a year off or more, because which one wins a drag race is important to me. It's not the be all end all. But it is something I'll consider. It doesn't mean you should.

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[silverelan]

Oh @Nak, you know me and my stoplight drag races.

I think the question though is worth asking (how far ahead is Tesla?) and debating its merits. I mean, I got at least 6-12 months ahead of me and have nothing better to do.

 

[mark360]

I posted a thread here that discussed why Tesla's value proposition doesn't matter to me. Couple that with the fact that there are many many other EV offerings out there that are pretty much to par with a Tesla at the same price point right now (Mach E for one!), and then you have Tesla's growth lowing even more.

It is naive to thing the technology Tesla has can't be replicated. Many automakers are actually trying, like Ford, to make a better GUI in order to further expand on what Tesla is offering. I love that it will have OTA updates, apple carplay and alexa.

The EA charging network will be 100x more widespread once all automakers release their EV's. It has the support of hundreds of billions of dollars from huge big brands.

I have done numerous personal case studies within the subject, and Tesla has certainly got a very hard and long road ahead of them. Their only saving grace will be if they can achieve level 4 autonomy, which is such a long shot when looking deeply into the difficulties of autonomy.

The neural network Tesla uses for the windshield wipers took 3 years of updates before it works almost as good as automatic wipers on my 2015 Chrysler. That same neural network is working on the Autonomy. Hint Hint, it's much more difficult and further away than they would like us to believe, although they do have a head start and I've seen progression in my car over the last 1.5 years.

 

[dbsb3233]

The panel says that every EV is looking like a Tesla. The first thing my wife said when she saw the Model 3 for the first time said it reminded her of our Prius.

Bingo. Always looks like a Prius to me too. Same curved hatch that looks low and boring and style-less.

The EA charging network will be 100x more widespread once all automakers release their EV's. It has the support of hundreds of billions of dollars from huge big brands.

Agree that it will be much bigger in the US a year or two from now when this wave of new BEVs hits the market. But I still think public charging networks like EA and Tesla's are an over-emphasized element. Home charging (and possibly workplace) is what really matters for the growth of BEV sales. That's what will really move the needle.

Ford is smart to include the mobile charger with the MME that can just plug into a standard 120v or 240v outlet. That simplifies it a little for people for whom this will be their first BEV. But if they really want BEV sales to take off, apartment/condo chargers are gonna be an important step. That's where cities/states really ought to be focusing their efforts.

 

[dbsb3233]

Let's take the lip on the trunk. For me, that's a weakness of the Mach-e, because I like sitting there. For someone else that will be a strength of the Mach-e because shit won't slide out if you're parked on a hill and open the hatch. That though, is something we know now.

That might even be adjustable. In this picture, it appears there's tabs on the sides that look like that cargo floor board might be able to be raised up to sit level with the seat backs when folded down. Can't see any in the foreground but I'm guessing there's a ledge just inside the lip too. So maybe the whole thing can sit flush if you want.

 

[Nak]

Maybe, that definitely looks promising. Here's a photo I took at the Portland Auto show. The tabs in your photo aren't there, but it looks like there's a place for them. I'm not seeing a ledge at the rear, but who knows what will make it in to production. It sure looks like they're thinking about it though. If they do go with the movable floor, I hope they make it strong enough to handle heavy bags... Anyways, this exactly what I mean when I say we really don't know which will be better, since lots could change between now and production. I'll have a better idea soon; I just received an email that my Y will be delivered in March.

 

[ChasingCoral]

But of course since Tesla has 1870 stations and EA just 407, they still have a long way to go to fill in more of the interstate routes.

True but with $2B in VW dieselgate settlement, EA is building out fast. Besides, with its CCS-Combo, the MME can quick charge in most every DCFC across the country. EVgo has 750 so far. 100s more from ChargePoint, etc. There are even more Level-2s.

 

[Nak]

Here's another nice feature of the Mach-e that I haven't seen posted anywhere. My apologies if this is old news. Here's a pic of the hatch open looking up at the hatch. See the two kind of lighted areas? That's actually two lights to brightly illuminate the area under the hatch when open. They have plates blocking the lights, I'm guessing to prevent blinding bystanders. Production models will probably do a better job of sending the light just down instead of back. Anyways, it's a little thing, but it's a nice touch for sure. And could come in very useful for me.

 

[macchiaz-o]

The adjustable floor in my Fiesta hatchback has proven incredibly sturdy. It's light weight, but I've loaded over 160 pounds of salt in there without it bending at all. I'm guessing it's a torsion box or similar.

Fiesta's hatch just has a single light on one side wall. If it's blocked by anything I've already loaded, it gets really hard to see in there. The additional lights would be very welcome, indeed.

 

[macchiaz-o]

Finally watched (most of) the panelist video. It was better than I was actually expecting given the earlier comments here.

Those "Now You Know" guys were absolutely horrible. I like the supposed premise of their YouTube channel, but after watching a few of their videos, it's clear they're less interested in educating people and more interested in spreading Tesla fanaticism.

Overall, I wish the panel were more diversified, instead of being mostly Tesla YouTubers.

Chelsea was awesome. I'd never heard of her before now. When I've got some more time, I'll most likely rent Who Killed the Electric Car.

 

[dbsb3233]

Those "Now You Know" guys were absolutely horrible.

The've really drunk the koolaid. I about fell out of my seat when Zac said all the legacy manufacturers will be going out of business. And the other guy wasn't any better when he said "Well, OK, maybe they'll barely survive by all merging in one company". Good grief.

Not only are they massive Tesla fanboys, they're obviously ICE-haters too. That's why I call them activists that have lost all sense of reality. ICE will gradually shrink market share as BEV gains, but ICE (including PHEV) will still be the majority of sales for many, many years. A few companies may merge along the way as ICE share shrinks, but nowhere close to "all" of them.

Regarding legacy companies making their own BEVs, they seem to forget that MOST of the vehicle is not the drivetrain. Legacy automakers will have a way easier time incorporating a new drivetrain than Tesla had developing entire vehicles from the ground up.

 

[silverelan]

The've really drunk the koolaid. I about fell out of my seat when Zac said all the legacy manufacturers will be going out of business. And the other guy wasn't any better when he said "Well, OK, maybe they'll barely survive by all merging in one company". Good grief.

Not only are they massive Tesla fanboys, they're obviously ICE-haters too. That's why I call them activists that have lost all sense of reality. ICE will gradually shrink market share as BEV gains, but ICE (including PHEV) will still be the majority of sales for many, many years. A few companies may merge along the way as ICE share shrinks, but nowhere close to "all" of them.

Regarding legacy companies making their own BEVs, they seem to forget that MOST of the vehicle is not the drivetrain. Legacy automakers will have a way easier time incorporating a new drivetrain than Tesla had developing entire vehicles from the ground up.

Zac & Jesse have an untenable position: cease all manufacturing immediately of fossil cars and begin mass production of EVs. As if there's a magic wand that can be waved to make that a reality overnight. They're idiots and should not be listened to.

 

[Billyk24]

MACH E hasn't been officially rated yet. Better yet what will the real world values be? Will have to wait another 9 months or so.

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