Charging FAIL & GREAT Surprise When We Compare The Model Y & Mach-E On The World’s Toughest EV Test!

[JamieGeek]

Yeah. RV parks are a great place to camp when you've got an EV - charged by morning, and cheaper than a hotel too. There's a part of me that wants a BEV Bronco with that roof tent someday for EV national parks and then sleep at RV parks adventures.

If I could get this in a BEV, I'd upgrade from the Mach-E early

Yeah both Bronco's would be cool with a plug (I've always maintained that if the Ranger had a plug I'd have one in my driveway).

A while ago I did post a "how to charge at a campground":
https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/campground-charging-as-a-last-resort.1403/

 

[GoGoGadgetMachE]

he kinda already hinted at what he thought. the charging and screen working as they suppose too and EA America has to get better. Then he likes the _____ better.

The Ford Blank?

You heard it here first everyone - the next Ford BEV will be the "Ford Blank"!

 

[stroszek]

I think I'm OK with limited dedicated EV chargers inside national parks as long as there are in the communities just outside them (mostly the case from what I can tell). With some exception for massive ones like Yellowstone.

 

[Mach-E VLOG]

There's a CCS fast charger in town in Moab too.

I looked on Plugshare but didn't see one.

 

[hybrid2bev]

I looked on Plugshare but didn't see one.

50 kW

 

[ARK]

You mean like this?

That’s a great shade of red.

 

[Razorbak86]

Actually, there's a high probability that you don't understand, completely or otherwise. Unless you're a senior member of the Mustang Mach-e team at Ford, there's a virtual 100% chance that none of us understand completely.

Well . . . do tell.
We would appreciate enlightenment.
He did say unless you were on the Ford Mach E team.

You are entitled to anonymity to the point where you begin expressing expertise. Start talking like an expert, and I would expect you to "pony up" with a bare minimum to reflect your knowledge or background. If not, then my estimation is that you really don't know what you are talking about.

 

[EVS]

This is an interesting point. I'm hoping that, much like other EV's on the market, the batter degradation is very minimal. As JayTee said it does have a big buffer, and it is much more sophisticated than the early leafs that suffer major range loss. In fact many of those now need a SUPER long extension cord to be driven

ALL electric cars will lose some significant range, not just the early Leafs, which were the worst.
Is Ford providing any range guarantee? Tesla, the supposed leader, doesn't guarantee that either.

Some early Roadster's lost so much range (50% IIRC) that they became undrivable. Even recently, there was an attempt of class action lawsuit on low ranges in used teslas, as Tesla sold the used cars claiming a much higher range but the buyers never saw the claimed range. Here is more detail. Tesla avoided the class action with some fine-print trick and winning the arbitration as they typically do.
https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2020/tesla-used-car-battery-warranty.shtml

July 28, 2020 — A Tesla used car battery warranty lawsuit has failed class action certification because the owners who sued agreed to arbitrate their claims when they ordered the Model S and Model X vehicles.

The lawsuit includes 2012-present used Model S and Model X vehicles that allegedly go through a certified pre-owned vehicle inspection.

Although the plaintiffs focus on the used car battery warranties, the lawsuit was filed over the entire pre-owned warranties.

The lead plaintiff claims his Model S should get about 200 miles per full charge, but a fully-charged battery only provides about 165 miles per charge. According to the plaintiff, Tesla didn't provide a report about the alleged certified pre-owned inspection, and the owner says he has no clue which components were inspected.

The lead plaintiff also alleges that no matter how many times he checks the battery range, the Model S always makes it about 165 miles at full battery capacity.

Tesla allegedly attempted to recalibrate the battery, but the plaintiff says nothing helped even after five visits to Tesla technicians.

The plaintiff took his case to arbitration where the automaker won, allegedly by making false statements during arbitration. This sent the plaintiff to the court where the proposed class action lawsuit was filed.

The plaintiffs argue Tesla should buy back the vehicles and refund any expenses incurred by customers, an argument the plaintiff's will now need to make in arbitration.

Tesla told the judge a class action cannot be certified because the lead plaintiff and other named plaintiffs agreed to arbitrate any disagreements when the used vehicles were purchased. However, the plaintiffs claim they didn't sign a specific arbitration agreement and can't remember seeing anything about it.

According to the judge, the lead plaintiff is wrong to argue that an arbitration agreement must be signed, and by clicking the button to order the Tesla the plaintiff is agreeing to the terms.

The lead plaintiff says he “does not recall whether the agreement was presented to him or whether he signed the agreement.” But the judge ruled Tesla presents sufficient evidence the agreement was presented to all the plaintiffs when they ordered their used vehicles.

"If a party could get out of a contract by arguing that he did not recall making it, contracts would be meaningless.” - Judge Josephine L. Staton

The judge found Tesla clearly provided every used vehicle buyer with the order agreement which contains the arbitration section that says claims must be arbitrated on an individual basis.

In short, there is no range guarantee even for high end Teslas. Speaking of my own personal experience with the Spark EV, I used to get 100-105 miles in summer for 82 EPA miles. Now after 60k miles, it is down to 74 miles in summer. So, I'd think Mach-e will also lose 5-10% range over 4-5 years, unless we see explicit guarantee of range from Ford.

 

[BlueMach]

ALL electric cars will lose some significant range, not just the early Leafs, which were the worst.
Is Ford providing any range guarantee? Tesla, the supposed leader, doesn't guarantee that either.

Some early Roadster's lost so much range (50% IIRC) that they became undrivable. Even recently, there was an attempt of class action lawsuit on low ranges in used teslas, as Tesla sold the used cars claiming a much higher range but the buyers never saw the claimed range. Here is more detail. Tesla avoided the class action with some fine-print trick and winning the arbitration as they typically do.
https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2020/tesla-used-car-battery-warranty.shtml

In short, there is no range guarantee even for high end Teslas. Speaking of my own personal experience with the Spark EV, I used to get 100-105 miles in summer for 82 EPA miles. Now after 60k miles, it is down to 74 miles in summer. So, I'd think Mach-e will also lose 5-10% range over 4-5 years, unless we see explicit guarantee of range from Ford.

We have an explicit guarantee from Ford: 70% retained by 100,000 miles or 8 years.

 

[dbsb3233]

ALL electric cars will lose some significant range, not just the early Leafs, which were the worst.
Is Ford providing any range guarantee? Tesla, the supposed leader, doesn't guarantee that either.

Ford's:

Electric Vehicle Component Coverage: 8 years or 100,00 miles (whichever occurs first), with retention of 70% or more of the original High Voltage Battery capacity over that period.

https://www.ford.com/buy-site-wide-content/overlays/mach-e-overlays/mach-e-faq/

 

[DaveRuns]

I really wanted to give it a fair shot so I plugged the Mach E into a fourth station (350kW) and it wouldn't connect to the car

I think Tommy did his level-best to give a fair review without bias. Whether it was the charger, car, or combination of both, there's an issue that needs to be addressed. I'm hopeful that based on Ford's response, "They're looking into it".

 

[EVS]

Ford's:

Electric Vehicle Component Coverage: 8 years or 100,00 miles (whichever occurs first), with retention of 70% or more of the original High Voltage Battery capacity over that period.

https://www.ford.com/buy-site-wide-content/overlays/mach-e-overlays/mach-e-faq/

Thanks, that's informative. So a worst case 30% drop is quite significant, won't you say? I was guessing 10%.
Compared to @TFLtommy 's statement " much like other EV's on the market, the battery degradation is very minimal. ". No one will call a 30% degradation in 100k miles "very minimal". That's the norm. It won't be unlike other electric cars. That's fundamental stuff for rechargeable batteries; can't get around it. I think Model 3 has something similar.

I don't know what's the exact SR range. If it is 208 miles, then, it will be a 140-mile car after 8 years. the ER will be a 210 mile BEV. It is possible the EPA range is conservative. Thats how most OEMs seem to be -putting the EPA estimate, on th conservative side. Except Tesla, according to many articles on this.

 

[BlueMach]

Thanks, that's informative. So a worst case 30% drop is quite significant, won't you say? I was guessing 10%.
Compared to @TFLtommy 's statement " much like other EV's on the market, the battery degradation is very minimal. ". No one will call a 30% degradation in 100k miles "very minimal". That's the norm. It won't be unlike other electric cars. That's fundamental stuff for rechargeable batteries; can't get around it. I think Model 3 has something similar.

I don't know what's the exact SR range. If it is 208 miles, then, it will be a 140-mile car after 8 years. the ER will be a 210 mile BEV. It is possible the EPA range is conservative. Thats how most OEMs seem to be -putting the EPA estimate, on th conservative side. Except Tesla, according to many articles on this.

Nobody calls an engine failure before 5years/60,000 normal, that's exactly why it's warrantied.

If we actually get to 70% capacity, Ford is going to be replacing batteries left and right, their actuaries have done the math - they don't want to actually pay, they wouldn't set the threshold somewhere where they would be expected to pay.

 

[timbop]

Thanks, that's informative. So a worst case 30% drop is quite significant, won't you say? I was guessing 10%.
Compared to @TFLtommy 's statement " much like other EV's on the market, the battery degradation is very minimal. ". No one will call a 30% degradation in 100k miles "very minimal". That's the norm. It won't be unlike other electric cars. That's fundamental stuff for rechargeable batteries; can't get around it. I think Model 3 has something similar.

I don't know what's the exact SR range. If it is 208 miles, then, it will be a 140-mile car after 8 years. the ER will be a 210 mile BEV. It is possible the EPA range is conservative. Thats how most OEMs seem to be -putting the EPA estimate, on th conservative side. Except Tesla, according to many articles on this.

Don't confuse the WARRANTY with what you will see. Keep in mid the 11% buffer means that the first 11% of degradation will be invisible to you. Ford's batteries are a commodity chemistry that is well known, and historical data suggests that after 8 years the battery will only lose 10% or so with proper battery management.

 

[GoGoGadgetMachE]

Don't confuse the WARRANTY with what you will see. Keep in mid the 11% buffer means that the first 11% of degradation will be invisible to you. Ford's batteries are a commodity chemistry that is well known, and historical data suggests that after 8 years the battery will only lose 10% or so with proper battery management.

Right - between the Focus Electric and the two Energi models, they have a lot of knowledge about this now.

The Mach-E isn't their first rodeo. Yeehaw!

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