Plug & Charge Fail and the 80% Cliff is Real

[BlueMach]

Same issue here, but sweet Jesus was Electrify America expensive! I used a ChargePoint DCFC and it was like 5 bucks. Not as fast, but still

Just a friendly warning that each ChargePoint station sets their own prices, as "ChargePoint" just sells the chargers and runs the payment processing, the actual property owner is the one that buys the charger and sets pricing. Some are far more expensive than Electrify America, depending on what the property owner decides.

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[VegStang]

This is a great thread, thanks for the post @hybrid2bev. Hopefully Ford can tweak this peak closer to 150 (or maybe testing at closer to 70 temp will do it.) My limited experience with EA is they are the highest price relative to others in my area. The closest Chargepoint 150 charger to me is $0.19 per kWh. Every location is different.

I'm ok with EA when needed, but look forward to there being more chargers coming online in the future. Getting these MMEs on the road will help that.

Same issue here, but sweet Jesus was Electrify America expensive! I used a ChargePoint DCFC and it was like 5 bucks. Not as fast, but still

 

[Frank Katz]

Yep, that's what will prevent electricity taxes from becoming the new gas tax (for road funding). Only public chargers can isolate that electricity to vehicle use. Homes can't, and that's where the vast majority of charging will be.

We need a whole new method of road funding, because the gas tax is about to become a very poor (and unfair) method as more EVs hit the road.

Probably annual vehicle registration fees, rewarding high mileage drivers and penalizing low mileage folks. I suspect with my MME I will accrue greater annual mileage. ?

 

[Plutoman15]

I would rather faster charging than dipping more into the buffer for 10% more range. On a road trip, miles per minute charging seems more important than total range (once you above the 200 mile total range mark).

one thing that doesn’t make sense to me. If these slower charging rates is because of cold weather, why wouldn’t the rate keep going up to 150kw until the battery hit some max temp and then taper back?

 

[EVS]

I've gotta believe they'll work all this out. Interesting thing will be watching how the taxes start increasing as the shift from ICE continues to erode collecting high gas taxes that support roads. Home charging complicates this.

This problem is already solved today by adding extra fees to EV registration fees in some states. Granted it doesn't capture the mileage driven. So someday the registration fees may be based on odometer reading to make it fair to those who drive less.

EA high rates: I actually support higher rates at EA. Just imagine if those high powered chargers were only costing 10c/KWh. They will be clogged by locals who will charge there instead of charging at home, denying those who really need a fast charge on their long road trips. The current rate seems to be a good balance to deter misuse. Those on local trips should find cheaper lower power chargers or just charge at home or destination.

This is not a big deal, as it is still comparable to gas. Also, with electric cars, you start with a full charge at home and probably get another full charge at your destination. So for a 1000 mile round trip, one may only fast charge 500 miles.

 

[dbsb3233]

Probably annual vehicle registration fees, rewarding high mileage drivers and penalizing low mileage folks. I suspect with my MME I will accrue greater annual mileage. ?

Yep. That's already happening in most states. For lack of a better method yet, they're typically adding a fixed annual "EV fee" that's supposed to replace the typical amount of gas tax paid for road funding.

But yes, since it's usually a fixed fee, heavy users benefit and light users get screwed.

 

[timbop]

I would rather faster charging than dipping more into the buffer for 10% more range. On a road trip, miles per minute charging seems more important than total range (once you above the 200 mile total range mark).

one thing that doesn’t make sense to me. If these slower charging rates is because of cold weather, why wouldn’t the rate keep going up to 150kw until the battery hit some max temp and then taper back?

It's not just the temperature that matters; inherent in the battery design is the fact that as the battery takes more of a charge the rate at which it can be charged goes down. Every BEV on the market (including Tesla) has this issue. The Audi e-tron masks the problem by intentionally taking a lower current than is physically possible when the battery is at a lower state of charge so that the charging curve is essentially flat.

 

[VegStang]

That seems reasonable, and the updated per kWh rate schedule is much better than EAs previous setup.

I did notice on my last trip down the I-5 in central California that some of the Chargepoint fast chargers had different rates depending on the time of day/week.

EA high rates: I actually support higher rates at EA. Just imagine if those high powered chargers were only costing 10c/KWh. They will be clogged by locals who will charge there instead of charging at home, denying those who really need a fast charge on their long road trips. The current rate seems to be a good balance to deter misuse. Those on local trips should find cheaper lower power chargers or just charge at home or destination.

This is not a big deal, as it is still comparable to gas. Also, with electric cars, you start with a full charge at home and probably get another full charge at your destination. So for a 1000 mile round trip, one may only fast charge 500 miles.

 

[dbsb3233]

EA high rates: I actually support higher rates at EA. Just imagine if those high powered chargers were only costing 10c/KWh. They will be clogged by locals who will charge there instead of charging at home, denying those who really need a fast charge on their long road trips. The current rate seems to be a good balance to deter misuse. Those on local trips should find cheaper lower power chargers or just charge at home or destination.

I generally agree, although I wouldn't want EA rates to be artificially higher. They're simply higher because it costs a lot more to install and maintain DCFC chargers than it does home charging. It's proper to charge higher rates for something that costs more.

Even if they were the same price, there's still a big incentive to charge at home and a disincentive to charge at a public charger -- convenience. It's super convenient to plug in overnight at home and forget it. Probably the biggest single convenience of BEVs. But having to babysit a DCFC charge is a pain.

This is not a big deal, as it is still comparable to gas. Also, with electric cars, you start with a full charge at home and probably get another full charge at your destination. So for a 1000 mile round trip, one may only fast charge 500 miles.

Getting 250 out of a 100% home or hotel L2 charge is probably pushing it, even in a RWD ER. Assuming it's at interstate speeds (which a 1000 RT usually is). By the time you adjust for high speed loss, leave 10% in the tank as a buffer, use some climate control, and adjust for less-than-perfect temps, ~220 is probably more realistic. ~200 for AWD. And there's probably not a charger right at that limit, forcing you to stop 10 or 20 or 30 miles sooner. The shorter legs commense at that point.

For my frequent road trip in my AWD ER, the pattern looks like it will be roughly 180-100-100-100... Some of that is simply because that's where the chargers are spaced though. Could probably reach 140 on those subsequent legs but there's not chargers there.

 

[TheVirtualTim]

I wonder if there is some time required from when you register ... before the Ford Pass integration and charging credit become available (e.g. some batch job that only runs overnight??)

In Tom's video ... he did show the EA charger screen and while his plug & charge worked ... it was the 43¢ charging rate.

 

[timbop]

... it was the 43¢ charging rate.

Nowhere have I ever seen Ford say that the Fordpass network includes the "pass+" rate at EA, so that makes sense. Many have been assuming that we would get that, but clearly we will only get the "pass membership" rate. Whether one can pay the extra to EA to get the better rate is unknown, which is one of the many instances in which Ford's communications have fallen flat.

Ford's engineers created a brilliant car; the rest of FoMoCo needs to catch up because they are letting the engineers down.

 

[dbsb3233]

I wonder if there is some time required from when you register ... before the Ford Pass integration and charging credit become available (e.g. some batch job that only runs overnight??)

In Tom's video ... he did show the EA charger screen and while his plug & charge worked ... it was the 43¢ charging rate.

If a FordPass subscription doesn't give us the preferred EA rate, I hope it at least integrates P&C properly with our EA Pass+ subscriptions at the preferred rate (should we choose to do so). Otherwise FordPass looks like it will be just short of worthless.

I know I'll be finding my own chargers before a road trip (making sure I can even do it in the Mach-E, knowing the backup situation, the prices, the power levels, the hotels, etc). I'll never just blindly get in the MME and go when it's long enough to require charging away from home.

 

[kdryden99]

So here we have 50kw 100kw and 150kw chargers. For the small amount of time that the car reaches 150, would it make more sense to go to a 50 or 100kw charger pay less but get a more linear curve or would the curve be the same for the slower chargers? In other words if you go to a 50kw would it stay at 50kw or would you end up at like 33kw

 

[DBC]

EA high rates: I actually support higher rates at EA. Just imagine if those high powered chargers were only costing 10c/KWh. They will be clogged by locals who will charge there instead of charging at home, denying those who really need a fast charge on their long road trips. The current rate seems to be a good balance to deter misuse.

This. I honestly don't care whether the DC charging rate is $.25 or $.35 or $.45 per kWh but I do care that I can charge when I need to. Tesla created an absolute cluster with its "free charging".

 

[eltonlin]

That's not how you road trip in an EV though. You want to charge to just being able to reach the next charger, with a little bit of a buffer. You want to arrive with less than 10% charge. Then you get the fastest part of the charging curve, so you spend the least amount of time at chargers.

Yeah, unless of course your destination may not have any chargers. At which point in time you want a bit more left in tank on your next leg to make it to a charger...

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