dbsb3233

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You are still 100% ahead of West Virginia. I thought about that as I drove through there this weekend on the way back to Ohio.
Add Wyoming and both Dakotas to that too. Zero EA coverage for the 1000 miles between Butte MT and Minneapolis MN.

We need to drive to Rapid City SD next summer for a family thing. Looks like we'll be taking the Escape.
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EA is finally adding a charging station in Vermont, though it's weird that they're choosing to install it at a grocery store instead of Walmart or a shopping mall.

It's great that they're more than doubling their presence in VT (going from 0 to 1 :)), but the price tag of $0.75/kWh makes it a non-starter for all but emergencies. Considering the going rate for electricity at home is around $0.17/kWh in the area, that seems ludicrous.
Ah yes, greed rears it's ugly head. With EA, not surprised.
 

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Ah yes, greed rears it's ugly head. With EA, not surprised.
I doubt it's greed. EA is surely losing lots of money at this point, and only surviving on VW settlement $billions and taxpayer subsidies.

I betcha charging revenues only cover a fraction of their costs, and they probably won't get into the black (from actual revenues) for many years. If ever.
 

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I doubt it's greed. EA is surely losing lots of money at this point, and only surviving on VW settlement $billions and taxpayer subsidies.

I betcha charging revenues only cover a fraction of their costs, and they probably won't get into the black (from actual revenues) for many years. If ever.
Well, when they buy electricity for $0.17 and resell it right in your face $0.75, I don't know what else to call it.
 

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Well, when they buy electricity for $0.17 and resell it right in your face $0.75, I don't know what else to call it.
But that doesn't account for all the other costs, or the sales volume. A charger costs a lot of money to buy. And a lot to install. And a lot to monitor and maintain and administer usage and billing for. All those costs have to be recovered in that per-kWh pricing (their only actual revenue source, not counting taxpayers and VW settlement).

It's also common these days to have hefty demand charges (premium pricing from the power company for using electricity during high-demand hours of the day.)

And if you don't have lots of sales volume, it's very difficult to recover all those costs. Right now, EA sales volume is pretty tiny. With relatively few CCS vehicles on the roads, each charger is sitting unused probably 95% of the day. That will improve in the coming years as more BEVs hit the roads, but right now their revenues have to be awfully scant.
 


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But that doesn't account for all the other costs, or the sales volume. A charger costs a lot of money to buy. And a lot to install. And a lot to monitor and maintain and administer usage and billing for. All those costs have to be recovered in that per-kWh pricing (their only actual revenue source, not counting taxpayers and VW settlement).

It's also common these days to have hefty demand charges (premium pricing from the power company for using electricity during high-demand hours of the day.)

And if you don't have lots of sales volume, it's very difficult to recover all those costs. Right now, EA sales volume is pretty tiny. With relatively few CCS vehicles on the roads, each charger is sitting unused probably 95% of the day. That will improve in the coming years as more BEVs hit the roads, but right now their revenues have to be awfully scant.
Well anyway, I love the red color of the eMustang you have ordered. Drive it in good health.
 

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Well, when they buy electricity for $0.17 and resell it right in your face $0.75, I don't know what else to call it.
1. Where are you citing $0.17? Does that include demand charges which for DCFC are huge?
2. Note that the other major players in the space, Tesla and EvGo, don't make a profit selling electricity (the former intends to only cover a portion of the cost, and the latter is trying to become profitable but is not yet).

It's likely EA is selling at a loss too; they're playing with free settlement money.
 

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But that doesn't account for all the other costs, or the sales volume. A charger costs a lot of money to buy. And a lot to install. And a lot to monitor and maintain and administer usage and billing for. All those costs have to be recovered in that per-kWh pricing (their only actual revenue source, not counting taxpayers and VW settlement).

It's also common these days to have hefty demand charges (premium pricing from the power company for using electricity during high-demand hours of the day.)

And if you don't have lots of sales volume, it's very difficult to recover all those costs. Right now, EA sales volume is pretty tiny. With relatively few CCS vehicles on the roads, each charger is sitting unused probably 95% of the day. That will improve in the coming years as more BEVs hit the roads, but right now their revenues have to be awfully scant.
Don’t waste your time. He’ll never get it.
 

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Well anyway, I love the red color of the eMustang you have ordered. Drive it in good health.
Thanks! Anxious for it to show up, although mine's probably 2-3 months from arrival yet.

One additional comment on EA pricing... What we're mostly paying for with their rates is the convenience, location, equipment, and speed of the charging, far moreso than the electricity itself.

My home electricity rate is just $0.10/kWh. But I also paid $400 for a wall charger. And $900 for the new circuit. When I pro-rate that over a decade of use my cost jumps about 35%. But that's at my home where I'm not counting any real estate cost, insurance, payment processing fees, etc. A retail charger needs to add all that and more. And do it in places that are probably more expensive than someone's home.

It's a bit like having a Coke at home that cost me 40 cents to buy at the grocery store by the 12-pack vs paying $2.49 at Chili's with my meal. Most of that cost is the value-added part.
 

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1. Where are you citing $0.17? Does that include demand charges which for DCFC are huge?
2. Note that the other major players in the space, Tesla and EvGo, don't make a profit selling electricity (the former intends to only cover a portion of the cost, and the latter is trying to become profitable but is not yet).

It's likely EA is selling at a loss too; they're playing with free settlement money.
The $.17 figure came directly from generaltso who started this thread. It's what his home electricity costs!
 

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The $.17 figure came directly from generaltso who started this thread. It's what his home electricity costs!
Ah yes, greed rears it's ugly head. With EA, not surprised.
I'm really curious to get your thoughts on this.

So knowing that it costs about $250,000 for a 4-charger station, plus taking into account the various ongoing costs that go into operating the station, what would an acceptable cost per kWh be? Especially considering that we're currently looking at 95%+ idle time per day.

(Link is to energy.gov evse pricing pdf)
 

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Add Wyoming and both Dakotas to that too. Zero EA coverage for the 1000 miles between Butte MT and Minneapolis MN.

We need to drive to Rapid City SD next summer for a family thing. Looks like we'll be taking the Escape.
The fact that they don't have anything at the intersection between I-90 and I-35 is kind of a oversight IMHO since those are two of the longest interstates in the country. One of the first Tesla SC's was put there with the super goofy looking early SC towers, now they have two separate stations there with the newer style ones.
 

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1. Where are you citing $0.17? Does that include demand charges which for DCFC are huge?
2. Note that the other major players in the space, Tesla and EvGo, don't make a profit selling electricity (the former intends to only cover a portion of the cost, and the latter is trying to become profitable but is not yet).

It's likely EA is selling at a loss too; they're playing with free settlement money.
Fun fact regarding demand charges: ~60 of the Electrify America sites so far have Tesla Powerpacks at them to help reduce demand charges/grid impact.
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