1,920 Ford dealers have enrolled in Model e program for 2024-2026 period

[dbsb3233]

For the Lightning, Ford is giving dealers 10% if they follow all of the rules, so that is $5k to almost $10k per truck.

First time I've heard that. How, that's huge! This is after they impose the MSRP fixed price policy, right? I wonder how much US MSRP's will get jacked up to cover that?

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[sotek2345]

First time I've heard that. How, that's huge! This is after they impose the MSRP fixed price policy, right? I wonder how much US MSRP's will get jacked up to cover that?

No, that is for current Lightning sales:

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...g-price-list-invoice-msrp-options-codes.7906/

 

[dbsb3233]

No, that is for current Lightning sales:

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/forum/threads/-2022-f-150-lightning-price-list-invoice-msrp-options-codes.7906/

This is starting to make more sense now. If Ford is paying them 3.1% for "EV Compliance", then it sounds like Ford is really the one funding most of these dealer requirements. That alone could cover the onerous requirement for DCFC. If a dealer sells 100 EVs/yr at $60k avg, 3.1% back on that is $186k in Ford kickback, per year ($558k over 3 years). Way more as EV production and sales ramp up.

I suspected that could be why so many dealers signed on, because Ford is paying them to do it. Now it's starting to make more sense. And of course that 3.1% is surely passed onto buyers via higher MSRP than it would otherwise be.

 

[AKgrampy]

This is starting to make more sense now. If Ford is paying them 3.1% for "EV Compliance", then it sounds like Ford is really the one funding most of these dealer requirements. That alone could cover the onerous requirement for DCFC. If a dealer sells 100 EVs/yr at $60k avg, 3.1% back on that is $186k in Ford kickback, per year ($558k over 3 years). Way more as EV production and sales ramp up.

I suspected that could be why so many dealers signed on, because Ford is paying them to do it. Now it's starting to make more sense. And of course that 3.1% is surely passed onto buyers via higher MSRP than it would otherwise be.

Should have just set a higher percentage in EV compliance when/if dealer also installs DCFC. I believe dealers would have installed DCFC when it made business sense. I imagine, as you stated, the incentive may make the installation cost effective for many dealers.

 

[dbsb3233]

Should have just set a higher percentage in EV compliance when/if dealer also installs DCFC. I believe dealers would have installed DCFC when it made business sense. I imagine, as you stated, the incentive may make the installation cost effective for many dealers.

Instead of giving them back 3.1% for each vehicle sold, they should have just paid them for the cost of the DCFC equipment & install. Would have been more fair to all the dealerships that way.

Not quite as fair to EV buyers that won't use it, as they'll be paying for it in the MSRP, but still.

 

[Mach1E]

Perspective is a funny thing though. It can change when new information is given.

While it's true that the Mach-E is Fords second worst selling vehicle from a different perspective one could say that Ford is the worlds second largest EV manufacturer second only to Tesla.

That is an impressive accomplishment especially when you consider Tesla had a 10+ year head start.

It is impressive.

But it’s still like being 2nd place in the minor leagues.

But to the point at hand, when it comes to profit, being the 2nd best selling in an ultra low volume category doesn’t get you any additional profit.

Absolute Volume of sales is all that matters. Not “selling pretty well for a BEV.” That doesn’t help the bottom line.

Yes, it’s a growing category, yes it’s supplies limited.

But either way, it’s not growing fast enough to help the bottom line. And when you have to invest a million just to continue to sell them, that puts dealers back even further.

At the end of the day, if you can’t deliver more cars (regardless of why) you dont make more money.

 

[dbsb3233]

It is impressive.

But it’s still like being 2nd place in the minor leagues.

But to the point at hand, when it comes to profit, being the 2nd best selling in an ultra low volume category doesn’t get you any additional profit.

Absolute Volume of sales is all that matters. Not “selling pretty well for a BEV.” That doesn’t help the bottom line.

Yes, it’s a growing category, yes it’s supplies limited.

But either way, it’s not growing fast enough to help the bottom line. And when you have to invest a million just to continue to sell them, that puts dealers back even further.

At the end of the day, if you can’t deliver more cars (regardless of why) you dont make more money.

It's just so much of an apples-to-oranges comparison though, because it leaves out 90% of Ford's vehicle sales (ICE/hybrid/PHEV). While Tesla has 0% of any of those.

ICE isn't minor leagues. If anything, it's still the major leagues and EVs are still the minor leagues. But the gap is gradually narrowing. And more to the point, it's the total that matters (all auto sales, no matter the powertrain).

 

[Mach1E]

It's just so much of an apples-to-oranges comparison though, because it leaves out 90% of Ford's vehicle sales (ICE/hybrid/PHEV). While Tesla has 0% of any of those.

ICE isn't minor leagues. If anything, it's still the major leagues and EVs are still the minor leagues. But the gap is gradually narrowing. And more to the point, it's the total that matters (all auto sales, no matter the powertrain).

I was calling EV the minor leagues. The total volume of sales is still very small.

Your last sentence is exactly what I was saying.

 

[DYohn]

I appologize if this has already been covered in the 11-pages of this thread, but is there an on-line database listing all the participating dealers?

 

[dbsb3233]

I was calling EV the minor leagues. The total volume of sales is still very small.

Your last sentence is exactly what I was saying.

Doh, my mistake. Misread it.

 

[dbsb3233]

I appologize if this has already been covered in the 11-pages of this thread, but is there an on-line database listing all the participating dealers?

Closest thing is probably Ford's dealer search page, where you can click on "Advanced Search" and filter for "EV Certified".

https://www.ford.com/dealerships/

 

[DYohn]

Closest thing is probably Ford's dealer search page, where you can click on "Advanced Search" and filter for "EV Certified".

https://www.ford.com/dealerships/

Beautiful, thank you.

 

[dbsb3233]

Beautiful, thank you.

At this point "EV Certified" likely just means sales and service though, under the current (old) certification requirements. Not the bigger requirements as laid out here for the future program (like having public DCFC), which doesn't take effect until 2024.

 

[SWO]

I was just on the Rotunda website looking for a VCM3 and saw that they have the DC Fast Chargers dealers will install listed for sale. 120kw chargers are $85k, and there's a 240kw charger for $106k.
https://rotunda.service-solutions.com/en-US/Pages/SearchResults.aspx?CKey=( (CatalogLevel1_Name_en-US:"Electric Vehicle Equipment") )&CTitle=Electric Vehicle Equipment&CSelectedKey=CatalogLevel1_Name_en-US:"Electric Vehicle Equipment"|Electric Vehicle Equipment

 

[Fremont Kid]

There's more data that we need to know about this. For example, EVs right now are generally priced in the premium to luxury category of vehicles. People buying into them are presumably trading in vehicles of a similar class. They might even be trading in other EVs, which are all the rage and rare right now. If dealerships are generally making more money on second-hand sales than on new sales, selling EVs might be a magnet for attracting better second-hand vehicles to sell. I'm just not sure how often people are swapping for EVs - as one data point, I had my Leaf for two years, but life circumstances (needing a larger vehicle) caused me to trade it in earlier than I normally would have. Reading some Tesla forums, it almost seems like a lot of people are trading vehicles in every 3-5 years, which is sooner than I would have expected.

Then there's the fact that the tide is coming in on EVs, and I think everyone accepts that now. In my area, EVs are ridiculously popular. Even if a new sale doesn't net a ton of money, it's a sale and puts the dealership on the map. Maybe people will continue to trade up in the future, or maybe some people are interested in EVs but not entirely committed and they'll buy something else... it's a possibility that wouldn't happen if they just go to the Kia dealership to look at an EV6, right?

The timing is the tricky part for the dealership. I think we're getting close in many parts of the country now, but I don't think we've yet reached the tipping point where people are dead-set on EVs over ICE vehicles. I'd expect the cost of the charging infrastructure to go down with time, but right now it's still quite expensive. Even though as a consumer I'd want more dealerships to buy in as soon as possible, from a business standpoint it probably makes more sense to wait the two or so years until Ford reopens enrollment for the program, to see how much greater the demand for EVs is, and to hope that the costs to meet Ford's requirements would have gone down.

Do not disregard what I'll term the 'value commitment' by Ford. I'll relate to Toyota's commitment to hybrids in the early 2000s. Toyota was the only manufacturer to fully commit to a hybrid line. They provided a 10-year drive train warranty. All things that $ as the bottom line would argue against. However, this assured myself and hundreds of thousands of other buyers of Toyota's commitment. I bought two Prius hybrids. Each was flawless and drove 200,000+ miles averaging 45+mph combined city/hwy.
Now, I am assured that Ford dealers will have qualified technicians, multiple L2 or greater chargers where I live or along travel routes. I think Ford will win a lot of 'value commitment' from many thousands of consumers. The $ value of this will only be known after several years lag.

Great discussion everyone.

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