116,937 Ford EV's Accounted For On Tax Credit?

dbsb3233

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One of the sticking points on the covid-19 stimulus was the issue of whether green energy incentives should be extended due to projects being stalled - they were not.
Nor should they have been as part of an emergency virus rescue package. That was reprehensible.
But back to the point of whether subsidies (if they're going to give them at all) should go to consumers vs manufacturers, it's also just easier to sell when it goes to consumers instead. Even though those of us here understand that it's really just a pass-thru to the manufacturers, many people that don't think it through don't understand that. So on the surface, it's an easier sell to subsidize consumers instead. Perception (even if flawed) often means more than reality for such things.

Of course, even better is just building products that are so good that consumers wanna buy them without subsidies. :cool:
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ChasingCoral

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But back to the point of whether subsidies (if they're going to give them at all) should go to consumers vs manufacturers, it's also just easier to sell when it goes to consumers instead. Even though those of us here understand that it's really just a pass-thru to the manufacturers, many people that don't think it through don't understand that. So on the surface, it's an easier sell to subsidize consumers instead. Perception (even if flawed) often means more than reality for such things.
Yes, it's the psychology behind coupons. Consumers like to feel like they are getting a special deal, so a coupon where you get money back is a stronger incentive in a grocery store than a label saying "price reduced". Same thing, different impact on consumers. Car buyers are no different.
 

Orangefirefish

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Nor should they have been as part of an emergency virus rescue package. That was reprehensible.
Exactly. Regardless of where one stands on the issue, these are completely unrelated and only serves to detract from the gravity of the situation.
Even though those of us here understand that it's really just a pass-thru to the manufacturers, many people that don't think it through don't understand that. So on the surface, it's an easier sell to subsidize consumers instead.
The other thing is, sounds great on paper, until you get down into the details. It’s a non-refundable credit, which some folks don’t seem to understand the mechanics of. So even taking advantage of it isn’t a guarantee. One has to either have enough tax liability, or be savvy enough to generate enough in the given year. I would think that there are some buyers who “waste” some of the credit. In this scenario, the manufacturers still benefit, while the consumer loses out. The good news about the gradual phasing out of the credits is that the car maker’s manufacturing is likely more streamlined at that point, leading to greater economies of scale, lower production costs, and a more refined product, ala Model 3. If you bought the M3 at the $3,750 or $1,875 credit points, the variety of available trims, slightly lower base price, and better production quality probably more than made up for that gap.

The second thing is that if the manufacturer has inflated the price of the vehicle in consideration of the tax credit, the resale value of the vehicle is impacted as well, at least while the credits are active. More or less it’s a zero sum gain in the short term. If the inflated price come down after the credits, well, you could have purchased later at a lower price then.

It’s less clear what the impact is as the tax credits are phasing out, or right after they are phased out. A lot depends on the pricing strategy of the manufacturer. If the manufacturer is using the credit to offset initial R&D and higher production costs, and then planning on keeping the price the same as the credits expire, then the consumer stands to benefit more.

Take the 39K M3 for example- while the tax credits were active you could make the argument that resale value was lower than base price (excluding any regular depreciation). But- say you bought in Q3 or Q4 with the 1,875 credit. Then the price actually went up $900 (OK, yes Tesla’s pricing strategy is all over the place). Was the vehicle’s value $37K immediately after purchase, and then it appreciated on 1/1/20?

It’s too early to tell whether the $40K price point is sustainable for Tesla.

All that is to say that we as consumers are not getting the full $7,500 value.
Of course, even better is just building products that are so good that consumers wanna buy them without subsidies. :cool:
Which, from the recent Tesla numbers, seems to be the case. Good competition is great news for all EV buyers.
 

hybrid2bev

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New Escape plug-in is coming out and looking strong. This will chip away at the availability of the $7,500 tax credits.

100 MPGE! ALL-NEW FORD ESCAPE PLUG-IN HYBRID BRINGS BEST-IN-CLASS EPA-ESTIMATED ALL-ELECTRIC COMBINED FUEL ECONOMY

Ford Mustang Mach-E 116,937 Ford EV's Accounted For On Tax Credit? 1591621681002


  • All-new Ford Escape Plug-In Hybrid with advanced fourth-generation hybrid technology system has a class-leading EPA-estimated all-electric fuel economy rating of 100 MPGe combined
  • Ford Escape Plug-in Hybrid has an EPA-estimated all-electric range of 37 miles – 11 more miles than even Ford Fusion Energi, with more passenger space and up to four times the cargo volume behind its second-row seats
  • In addition to potential savings at the pump, purchasing an Escape Plug-In Hybrid may qualify a customer for state tax incentives or rebates1; Escape Plug-In Hybrid starts under $35,000 MSRP
DEARBORN, Mich., June 8, 2020 – The all-new Ford Escape Plug-In Hybrid now has a best-in-class EPA-estimated all-electric fuel economy rating of 100 MPGe combined and an EPA-estimated 37 miles of all-electric driving range.2

MPGe, or miles per gallon of gasoline equivalent, is an Environmental Protection Agency metric to compare the amount of energy consumed by alternative fuel vehicles – including those partially powered by electricity, like Ford Escape Plug-In Hybrid – to what traditional gas-powered vehicles consume.

“The original Ford Escape was the world’s first hybrid SUV and the all-new Ford Escape Plug-in Hybrid represents how far we’ve come in technology and efficiency,” said Hau Thai-Tang, Ford chief product development and purchasing officer. “The all-new Escape plug-in has more power and more passenger space than the Fusion Energi plug-in, as well as up to four times the cargo volume behind its second-row seats.”

Hybrids can serve as a hedge against rising gas prices. The Escape Plug-In Hybrid is available as gas prices are expected to rise, according to AAA, following the easing of stay-at-home mandates across the country. As consumers begin returning to work and taking weekend trips, demand for gasoline is expected to spike from the decades-low prices of the past two months.

Whether gas is $1.87 a gallon like today or $2.87 a gallon like this time last year, Escape Plug-In Hybrid is suited for both, with an EPA-estimated all-electric range of 37 miles and an EPA-estimated rating of 41 miles per gallon combined when running strictly on gasoline.

“The economic and environmental impacts of this virus have created a roller coaster for consumers looking to balance value, need and efficiency going forward,” Thai-Tang said. “Ford Escape Plug-In Hybrid is that ideal balance our customers want.”

In addition to potential savings at the pump, Escape Plug-In Hybrid starts under $35,000 MSRP.

The Escape Plug-In Hybrid is part of Ford’s investment of more than $11.5 billion in electrified vehicles. This Escape features Ford’s innovative fourth-generation hybrid propulsion system, which includes an all-new 2.5-liter Atkinson cycle hybrid engine and electronic continuously variable transmission. The plug-in hybrid system is available on every Escape trim level except S and SE Sport.

Escape Plug-In Hybrid has plenty of room for passengers and cargo thanks to the smart placement of its liquid-cooled, 14.4-kilowatt-hour lithium-ion battery below the second-row seats, rather than occupying a significant portion of the cargo area.

Escape Plug-In Hybrid has a Level 1/Level 2 AC charging port. Using a 110-volt Level 1 charger, the estimated time to fully charge the battery is 10 to 11 hours. Using a 240-volt Level 2 charger, charge time drops to roughly 3.5 hours.3

Hybrid models feature four modes that allow customers to select the setting most suitable for their individual needs. This means:

  • In Auto EV mode, the vehicle decides whether to run on gas or electric power
  • In EV Now mode, drivers can operate on all-electric power
  • In EV Later mode, drivers can switch to full gas-hybrid driving to conserve electric miles for later
  • In all-new EV Charge mode, drivers can continue to charge the battery while driving and generate electric-only miles to use later
Escape comes standard with Ford Co-Pilot360™ and offers available Ford Co-Pilot360™ Assist+ features such as Adaptive Cruise Control with Stop-and-Go and Lane-Centering, Evasive Steering Assist, and a voice-activated navigation system with SiriusXM™ Traffic and Travel Link. Also available is the class-exclusive Active Park Assist 2.0.

https://media.ford.com/content/ford...-mpge-all-new-ford-escape-plug-in-hybrid.html
 

dbsb3233

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I'd accounted for some Escape PHEV sales in my projections for remaining tax credits, but it's hard to know how many will actually sell. It could be way more than I figured. Overall it looks like a really nice vehicle. And choosing the PHEV version makes a lot of sense. Don't even have to mess with putting in a 240V outlet in the garage, since an overnight charge on 120V fills the battery for most people.

I really wanna see how it drives, and how much power it has. I know it won't be a Mach-e, but I'd want it to be at least as powerful as our 2013 Escape Titaniums with the Ecoboost engine. They're sufficiently peppy.

I can't say I like the styling of the new Escape though. I think they downgraded the looks from the 2013-2019 series. It just looks more plain and frumpy on the outside.
 


eager2own

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I really wanna see how it drives, and how much power it has. I know it won't be a Mach-e, but I'd want it to be at least as powerful as our 2013 Escape Titaniums with the Ecoboost engine. They're sufficiently peppy.
221 hp, and Motor Trend’s projections of 0-60 in approximately 9 seconds just show it’s for a completely different market than the MME.

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/toy...-2020-ford-escape-phev-hybrid-suv-comparison/

For comparison, it looks like your 2013 did 0-60 in 6.8 secs.
 

dbsb3233

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timbop

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ab13

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221 hp, and Motor Trend’s projections of 0-60 in approximately 9 seconds just show it’s for a completely different market than the MME.

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/toy...-2020-ford-escape-phev-hybrid-suv-comparison/

For comparison, it looks like your 2013 did 0-60 in 6.8 secs.
Cnet did a good chart comparison of PHEV. The biggest benefit of the Escape is price, but it's lower on power, also I don't expect the turning radius to be improved.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/...tsubishi-outlander-subaru-crosstrek-compared/
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