120v--> 240v device question

[RedDragon]

All,

I am not an electrical engineer by any means, so would appreciate any and all comments. I found this device on amazon (link below) that says if you plug it in to two standard outlets on DIFFERENT CIRCUITS, it can produce a 240v outlet. I happen to have two outlets, right next to each other, in my garage on different circuit breakers. I was planning to use this to upgrade to 240v charging in my house . I am renting the house I am in now, so dont have the flexibility to just install a 240v outlet.

1) Is this thing safe to use? Last thing i need is any problems w house or MME
2) If answer to 1 is yes, would it actually produce materially faster charging than charging with a standard outlet?

THanks - any and all comments appreciated. This is not my area of expertise.

Link to product on amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Converter-El...psdc_6396124011_t2_B0824Y3M8V#customerReviews

Description:


This adapter is 100% safe & permanent. every adapter is tested be for sending. troubleshooting, if it is working but not enough power your wall outlets do not have enough amperage. and this adapter will not work for you. if you plug it in and it is not doing any thing you need to plug it in to a different outlet. This adapter will allow you to convert your standard 110/125 VOLT home wall power in to a high power 220/250 VOLT. Typically used for things like Dryers, Stoves, Welders. EV Car Chargers and a lot more. For proper use of this adapter you will need to plug each 110/125V plug in to different outlets ran from different circuits. THIS ADAPTER WILL NOT WORK IF YOU DO NOT PLUG IT IN TO DIFFERENT CIRCUITS. Example- Plug the 2 110/125V plugs in to 2 different rooms ran by 2 different breakers. And the converter will produce 220/250V. So by plugging the 2 5-15P plugs in to 2 different power sources it will make 220/250V from 110/125V. Or simply in to 2 different rooms in your house, as long as you get your 110/125V power from 2 different circuits this will work. If this adapter is not working for you, What you are plugged in to does not have enough amperage. This adapter works about 95% of the time. If it is not working for you simply send it back with a note and I will refund you in full. SELLER NOTE- Most all of the items i sell are MADE TO ORDER. SO THERE WILL BE A TIME DELAY IN SHIPPING. Most of the time a maximum of 2 or 3 day delay. Thank you.. Hi I Own And Operate A Small Business In The USA, 5 Employees And We All Value Our Customer So If Your Not Happy With One Of Our Products. Please Try Not To Kill Us With Feedback. Please Allow Us A Moment To Make It Right. Thank You.

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[Kabish]

It has to be on two different busses not breakers. That said, seems like a hell of a lot of liability and I would not trust it for a continuous pull.

 

[Vulnox]

Hmm, it may work, although I think his word usage should be busses, not circuits, but you have to be careful what you use on the other end. You have 2x110v@15amp outlets and then making 1x220@30 amp potential.

The problem is, they give you a 14-50 plug, which is rated for up to 50 amp. Most EVSEs that plug into that are expecting to be on a 50 amp circuit, likely maxing out at 40 amp in most cases though to maintain a buffer between load and circuit capacity.

So at 30 amps, and that is max rating at the outlets, combined, you would have to get an EVSE that allows you to set a max draw, and then probably go lower, like 25 amps.

You will never see the charging speeds you might see with a properly run 220@50amp line, but it would be faster than a standard 110.

Would I do this though? Man I dunno. This may be fine for something like a band saw that is 20 amps@220 and has to run for a few minutes or something. But the EVSE will likely run at the full 25 amp draw for hours and I am not sure how evenly it will pull from each outlet. Some EVSEs also have thermal detection on the plug, so if things get too hot they shut off to prevent a fire. By using this adapter if the outlet is overheating, that safety system will be lost.

The Ford C-Max chargers ran into that before they added thermal safety checks and it did start some fires.

Basically, could it work? I think so, with the right EVSE. Is it safe? I am leaning towards no, but I am also not an electrician.

 

[Timelessblur]

Hmm, it may work, although I think his word usage should be busses, not circuits, but you have to be careful what you use on the other end. You have 2x110v@15amp outlets and then making 1x220@30 amp potential.

Going to correct you here. It will not be 1x220 @ 30 amps. It will be 1x220v @ 15 amps. The amps in this part can not be added together. Follow this by if any of those are a GFIC then the GFI will blow really fast on this system.

All this system does is instead of the hot wires going to a ground the 2 hots are connected to each other than out of phase with each other to increase the voltage dif.

 

[GadgetTech]

I personally would never put that anywhere near my car or house. There is no mention of wire gauge or amperage capacity. It also doesn't tell you the plugs have to be on two different buses or phases coming in, not just different breakers. As much as it may suck to charge for so long, I wouldn't risk it at all. Plus if something did happen I'm not sure that is up to code and your renters insurance will have a hay-day with that. If there is a program available I would maybe see if your work would install a charger or maybe talk to your facilities person and see if there is a 220 tap you can use while working or something. Just my 2C.

 

[Vulnox]

Going to correct you here. It will not be 1x220 @ 30 amps. It will be 1x220v @ 15 amps. The amps in this part can not be added together. Follow this by if any of those are a GFIC then the GFI will blow really fast on this system.

Thanks! Yeah I screwed that up, again not an electrician and should have confirmed that first.

But yeah in that case especially, I would think this is more risk than it is worth. The improvement in charge speed I would think would be minimal.

 

[RedDragon]

Hmm, it may work, although I think his word usage should be busses, not circuits, but you have to be careful what you use on the other end. You have 2x110v@15amp outlets and then making 1x220@30 amp potential.

The problem is, they give you a 14-50 plug, which is rated for up to 50 amp. Most EVSEs that plug into that are expecting to be on a 50 amp circuit, likely maxing out at 40 amp in most cases though to maintain a buffer between load and circuit capacity.

So at 30 amps, and that is max rating at the outlets, combined, you would have to get an EVSE that allows you to set a max draw, and then probably go lower, like 25 amps.

You will never see the charging speeds you might see with a properly run 220@50amp line, but it would be faster than a standard 110.

Would I do this though? Man I dunno. This may be fine for something like a band saw that is 20 amps@220 and has to run for a few minutes or something. But the EVSE will likely run at the full 25 amp draw for hours and I am not sure how evenly it will pull from each outlet. Some EVSEs also have thermal detection on the plug, so if things get too hot they shut off to prevent a fire. By using this adapter if the outlet is overheating, that safety system will be lost.

The Ford C-Max chargers ran into that before they added thermal safety checks and it did start some fires.

Basically, could it work? I think so, with the right EVSE. Is it safe? I am leaning towards no, but I am also not an electrician.

Thanks!

Yes - I think you are right on the busses. both circuit breakers are on two separate columns in the breaker box, so that should mean they are on separate busses, right?

Assuming the above is correct, my thought was to use the Ford mobile charger with this device plugged into the two outlets. I unfortunately dont have the ability to install my own EVSE - if i owned this house it would be done (cant wait to be out of here!) . Would this setup be considered safe?

This whole setup is not necessary for my daily use case. However, i saw this and thought it could be good to have (assuming it works) in case i wanted some faster charging at home.

Thanks again!

 

[Vulnox]

I would also just talk to your landlord. I know if I was renting a house to someone, and they wanted to run a 50amp circuit and wiring to my garage, I wouldn't be upset at all. I would want to vet whoever they plan to use as the electrician, but otherwise go for it. Electric cars aren't likely to go anywhere, even if you aren't the tenant in five years or whatever, chances are increasing every day that this will only increase the appeal of this place to other renters.

 

[Vulnox]

Thanks!

Yes - I think you are right on the busses. both circuit breakers are on two separate columns in the breaker box, so that should mean they are on separate busses, right?

Assuming the above is correct, my thought was to use the Ford mobile charger with this device plugged into the two outlets. I unfortunately dont have the ability to install my own EVSE - if i owned this house it would be done (cant wait to be out of here!) . Would this setup be considered safe?

This whole setup is not necessary for my daily use case. However, i saw this and thought it could be good to have (assuming it works) in case i wanted some faster charging at home.

Thanks again!

Timelessblur corrected me on the amperage. If it is 15 amps combined, then your speed increase will be minimal I suspect. And again you would have to be sure the Ford Mobile Charger can be configured to run at the lower amperage and no higher. I am pretty sure it isn't capable of knowing the circuit it is plugged into and will just negotiate highest speed with the Mach-E and then blow a breaker.

 

[RedDragon]

Thanks all! very helpful - i will abandon this idea. Does not appear to be worth it.

 

[Mach-Lee]

1) Is this thing safe to use? Last thing i need is any problems w house or MME
2) If answer to 1 is yes, would it actually produce materially faster charging than charging with a standard outlet?

THanks - any and all comments appreciated. This is not my area of expertise.

Engineer familiar with electrical codes here, no that device is not safe to use, no one should buy it. First and most dangerously, it doesn't carry enough amps, only 15 when it needs to be rated for 40 amps or more. The Ford charger will try to draw 32 amps and blow the breaker or melt wires. Second, it would trip your garage GFCI outlet. Third, it's not safe if there's an electrical fault. I could go on but my opinion is it's a product that shouldn't even exist. Just 120V charge if you have to, that would be many times safer.

 

[SnBGC]

Thanks!

Yes - I think you are right on the busses. both circuit breakers are on two separate columns in the breaker box, so that should mean they are on separate busses, right?

No. Does not guarantee they are on separate legs because the bus bars alternate between sides. See second photo below....

You might get lucky and have them on separate busses or you might not. How lucky do you feel?

Before you answer that.....
Here are photos of my panel at home. I had a ChargePoint Home Flex on a 60 amp breaker in slots 37 and 39 (last two on the lower left). The breaker melted because there was arcing inside the breaker (according to Eaton).

I was lucky.

 

[Nklem]

I have been using one for Two years as my backup on my Hyundai 120V charger. It also works with the Mach E included charger with the 120v pigtail. You get 2.88kWh rather than 1.44. I made my own adapter (for less than $20) and split a 120V duplex into two busses or poles in my garage. It’s 100% faster than 120V alone. I would say it is not code compliant. I would love to get a European pigtail and a Matching EU 220 receptacle.

 

[Xlch59]

No. Does not guarantee they are on separate legs because the bus bars alternate between sides. See second photo below....

You might get lucky and have them on separate busses or you might not. How lucky do you feel?

Before you answer that.....
Here are photos of my panel at home. I had a ChargePoint Home Flex on a 60 amp breaker in slots 37 and 39 (last two on the lower left). The breaker melted because there was arcing inside the breaker (according to Eaton).

I was lucky.

The bus alternates vertically. Tab A then B then back to A. As an electrician I would not use the adapter the OP is showing.

 

[Nklem]

This is what I modeled mine after…….the EV Doubler.

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