2021 Ford Mustang Mach-E Reports 355-Mile Range In Alleged Real-World Driving Test

RonTCat

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When I found out that EPA tests are done on a dynometer, I was (and still am) puzzled. Seems like all that could measure is the fuel it takes to turn the wheels with the weght of the vehicle pushing down. With zero regard for aerodynamics. Doesn't that just treat a Ferrari and a Hummer the same?? Even though there's clearly a dramatic difference in aerodynamics?

The more I find out about EPA ratings, the more worthless they appear. I'm beginning to think our anxiousness to get the EPA range for the Mach-e is misplaced.

EDITED: I just remembered that (IIRC) vehicle manufactures also have to report results of an aerodynamic test too, that's used to set the resistance on the dyno rollers to mimic wind resistance.

Still though, seems ripe for inaccuracies.
Vehicle weight (inertia) and all force losses (bearing drag, brake drag, driveline loss, aero drag, etc.) are measured on an actual vehicle and transfered to the dynamometer system. There are even corrections for the non-spinning wheels, i.e. all 4 wheels spin in actual driving conditions, but on a RWD dyno test only the rear wheels are spinning. Aero measurements are taken both into the wind and with the wind, and averaged.

Bottom line, as far as the vehicle is concerned, when it is on a chassis dynamometer it thinks and feels like it is being driven on an actual flat road. All the forces are simulated within ~ 1%. Almost all modern dynamometers can also simulate other things, like hills, if so desired.
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dbsb3233

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A 23% drop in range between 65 MPH and 75 MPH. Wow, that's scary. Our typical road trip includes 360 miles through Utah at 80 MPH.

Hope the Mach-E doesn't degrade that badly at high speed.
 

RonTCat

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A 23% drop in range between 65 MPH and 75 MPH. Wow, that's scary. Our typical road trip includes 360 miles through Utah at 80 MPH.

Hope the Mach-E doesn't degrade that badly at high speed.
It should degrade close to that... you can't fight physics (aero losses).
 

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True. And they're BOTH very poor comparisons to a typical interstate-speed drive in the US.

While it was still an interesting anecdotal test, I still want to see a 65 or 75 MPH run. That's what will really matter for most road trips. That 355 will likely be waaay lower. The question is just how much lower? 280? 250? 220?
Very curious myself. Secretly I have been hoping the MME would be as efficient as my FFE but I am less hopeful each day. My lifetime average is 4 miles per kWh. This is almost all 65-75 mph freeway driving with A/C nearly year round.

If the MME could do that well then a 88kWh battery pack would achieve around 350 miles of range. Not going to happen though...:(

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dbsb3233

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It should degrade close to that... you can't fight physics (aero losses).
Interestingly though, I'm almost positive our Escape doesn't lose anywhere near that much between 65 MPH and 75 (or even 80). I don't have exact data, but just checking the display periodically, seems like we lose closer to 10% off MPG between 65 and 80. Maybe 15% tops. We average about 22-23 MPG on an 80 MPH leg thru UT, and about 25-26 thru the 60-75 MPH stretches in CO (mix of mountain and flat).

If BEVs have a 23% loss from 65 to 75, that projects to 34% loss from 65 to 80.

Must be more adding to it than just aero drag. Maybe some losses from the electric motor revving at high RPM too?
 

dbsb3233

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If the MME could do that well then a 88kWh battery pack would achieve around 350 miles of range. Not going to happen though...
Not on our highways out west anyway. The folks in the northeast US, or other places with lower speed limits might get closer. I could maybe see that being in reach at 55 MPH. But at 75, anything remotely close seem highly unlikely.

But, fingers crossed it'll at least be better than the Ford estimate, and better than we're expecting.
 

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Must be more adding to it than just aero drag. Maybe some losses from the electric motor revving at high RPM too?
Your Escape's powerplant is far less efficient than a BEV's drivetrain. Much of the energy you put into it is converting to heat instead of being delivered to the wheels on the road.

At highway speeds, the Escape is dropping fuel efficiency according to @RonTCat's formula. It's just that the constant and proportional portions of the negative force are far greater than they'd be on a more aero shape or a more energy efficient drivetrain.
 

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Interestingly though, I'm almost positive our Escape doesn't lose anywhere near that much between 65 MPH and 75 (or even 80). I don't have exact data, but just checking the display periodically, seems like we lose closer to 10% off MPG between 65 and 80. Maybe 15% tops. We average about 22-23 MPG on an 80 MPH leg thru UT, and about 25-26 thru the 60-75 MPH stretches in CO (mix of mountain and flat).

If BEVs have a 23% loss from 65 to 75, that projects to 34% loss from 65 to 80.

Must be more adding to it than just aero drag. Maybe some losses from the electric motor revving at high RPM too?
Remember. An ICE is more efficient at cruising speed compared to stop and go driving where a BEV is opposite. So the delta will be greater in a BEV as a percentage.
 

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Remember. An ICE is more efficient at cruising speed compared to stop and go driving where a BEV is opposite. So the delta will be greater in a BEV as a percentage.
Regen braking is an additional component that changes the equation at low speed, of course, but for this purpose I'm only interested in the high speed end (no regen, just cruising). Like the difference in the chart above between 65 MPH and 75 (both cruising with no regen).

The ICE engine itself must be more efficient at high speed (relative to low speed). Or maybe it's the transmission that makes a huge difference at higher speed. That probably makes the most sense, the more I think about it.
 

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Regen braking is an additional component that changes the equation at low speed, of course, but for this purpose I'm only interested in the high speed end (no regen, just cruising). Like the difference in the chart above between 65 MPH and 75 (both cruising with no regen).

The ICE engine itself must be more efficient at high speed (relative to low speed). Or maybe it's the transmission that makes a huge difference at higher speed. That probably makes the most sense, the more I think about it.
I believe ICE are generally more thermally efficient at higher loads, and likely at particular RPM, so this is offsetting some of the aero losses as speed increases. The transmission gearing is optimized to find that sweet spot for highway cruises.

Also, as mentioned, the regen available for "city" driving will improve range for BEV, which makes low speed range look better.
 

dbsb3233

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Also, as mentioned, the regen available for "city" driving will improve range for BEV, which makes low speed range look better.
Which is so unfortunate for BEV adoption, as it's just the opposite of what most people need. They usually need the range on the road, while it's usually unnecessary for home/city driving (where most people just charge at home overnight).

Not that regen electricity generation isn't a nice bonus around town, but that's pretty much what it is: just a bonus. Means you charge 15 minutes less at home that night. Comes in a little handy on road trips after you get to your destination, but getting there is the problem, and where the range really matters.
 

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Which is so unfortunate for BEV adoption, as it's just the opposite of what most people need. They usually need the range on the road, while it's usually unnecessary for home/city driving (where most people just charge at home overnight).

Not that regen electricity generation isn't a nice bonus around town, but that's pretty much what it is: just a bonus. Means you charge 15 minutes less at home that night. Comes in a little handy on road trips after you get to your destination, but getting there is the problem, and where the range really matters.
At this point, battery energy density will likely increase every year, and hopefully battery cost will drop. It would be great to go to my Ford dealer in 5 years, and pay maybe $1500 for a new battery pack that gives me 1000 mile range. If that happens, EV sales will then get mainstream and sales will start to seriously grow, because people other than those in the highest 5% income bracket will be able to afford them.

Until then, they are a toy for the well off.
 

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Until then, they are a toy for the well off.
At this point, battery energy density will likely increase every year, and hopefully battery cost will drop. It would be great to go to my Ford dealer in 5 years, and pay maybe $1500 for a new battery pack that gives me 1000 mile range. If that happens, EV sales will then get mainstream and sales will start to seriously grow, because people other than those in the highest 5% income bracket will be able to afford them.

Until then, they are a toy for the well off.
Hope you are young enough to see those light weight, solid state batteries with 2 times the energy density of the current large packs consuming only an 1/8 of their space.

As only a toy I disagree but for payback you could be looking at 10 years. For some the less maintenance is big. For those that do not commute, take only a few longer trips a years, have the time to charge and plan on maintaining their vehicle I think the less wear and tear on an electric could be a bonus and will pay for itself (even as second vehicle has merits).

A first year MME with those batteries we both know will happen. New tech can be robust and I think this 1st edition will be as Ford is trying to do a bang up job.

Note: Prior post edited with source. I have been informed, by a more knowledgeable source than I, that it does not include for resistance heater etc. so it may be on the positive side. Chevrolet Bolt EV Range at Constant Speeds . Do not get caught in the middle of no where @ -20 oF.
 
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