BlueMach

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I've never used EA so this is probably wrong but it looks like it might present the member rate as member savings (obfuscated here by the free 250kwh)?
I hope so. If there isn't a way to get my Pass+ pricing with the Mach-E then Ford really will have pushed me into a corner. There's no way I'm going to buy this car if I have to pay a premium for charging vs what I pay today. I hope we're able to link our Pass+ accounts to FordPass, or that we're able to turn off Plug&Charge, but having to turn off Plug&Charge would be extremely disappointing. It'd be strange for Ford to chose to force customers to pay the most expensive rate for EA when their primary competitor gives away 3 years of unlimited free EA charging.
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BlueMach

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I've never used EA so this is probably wrong but it looks like it might present the member rate as member savings (obfuscated here by the free 250kwh)?
EA displays the rate your account bills at. Mine shows $0.31/kWh on the screen because of my Pass+ membership.
 

BlueMach

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My understanding is that Ford Pass 'will' seamlessly be integrated to EA charging account.
I really hope so. But I don't see a way to do that in either app yet. We need a way to get our Pass+ pricing *with* Plug&Charge. I hope there's a way we just don't know about yet.

Paying nearly 40% more for charging than my actual EA account just to get Plug&Charge is just not a solution.
 

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It amounted to an estimated 122 miles gained in 38 minutes. -------Err. How are you going to road trip in an EV if it takes 38 minutes to gain 122 miles? How long would it take me to travel my 832 mile drive in my hybrid/PHEV compared to a BEV with stopping less than two hours to charge up for 38 minutes and gain only 122 miles?
That is not going to practical with the current infrastructure for at least a few more years. It may never be practical with this particular car: based upon the consistently poor public charging reviews, it seems to me that this car may not have the necessary hardware to get anywhere close to the advertised max DC fast charging rate for any meaningful amount of time. It may need a bigger straw.
 
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dbsb3233

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There are definitely times you need more then 80 miles or so, and yes, that's going to add some time. It's a compromise.

Most EA chargers are right off the freeway and pretty easy to find, in my experience. But probably still easier to find a gas station. ;)
Yep. I'm not saying it's often not still doable. I plan to use my MME on some road trips (and my Escape on the others). I just wince a little when I hear people saying "just do more frequent short charges instead of long ones", when there's already so many time losses in everything else involved with driving a BEV on a road trip. Shifting to more short charges instead of fewer long charges just adds even more delays because there's added churn time involved just getting off the highway each time. Doing 6 15-minute charges takes more time than doing 3 30-minute charges because of that added churn getting off the highway (added to list of all the other delays).

There was some expectation that that churn time might be offset a little with the charge curve cranking out 150 kW in the first half of the curve (thus making it faster to charge in the 10-40% SOC area). But the early reports are just the opposite (probably in part because it's Winter now and it's very slow until conditioned, even if just driving it). Hopefully that will improve in the production cars. I assume it will, but maybe not as much as initially expected. Looks like it will depend a lot on how perfect the weather is (or isn't).

There's just a lot of nickel-and-dime delays that really add up. A drive that used to take 8 hours in ICE is gonna take 10-11 hours in a BEV. You're right, it does take a slower way of thinking, and that'll take a lot of getting used to for most drivers.
 


Mirak

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Right. The "just stop every 50-100 miles to charge in the sweet spot" argument isn't feasible form a time or convenience standpoint. Trying to string together a 400+ mile road trip without overnights would be PAINFUL. It's the current Achilles Heal of BEVs. Tesla is a lot closer to closing this gap - everybody else has a way to go.

I still prefer the Mach E to Model Y for many reasons, but gotta give credit where it is due. Granted, I DO think the charging infrastructure will catch up relatively soon, but I have concerns about the constraints imposed on the MME's end.
 

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But the early reports are just the opposite (probably in part because it's Winter now and it's very slow until conditioned
What do you mean by "conditioned?" Does this occur over time or is there something the owner does? Thanks.
 

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Right. The "just stop every 50-100 miles to charge in the sweet spot" argument isn't feasible form a time or convenience standpoint. Trying to string together a 400+ mile road trip without overnights would be PAINFUL. It's the current Achilles Heal of BEVs. Tesla is a lot closer to closing this gap - everybody else has a way to go.

I still prefer the Mach E to Model Y for many reasons, but gotta give credit where it is due. Granted, I DO think the charging infrastructure will catch up relatively soon, but I have concerns about the constraints imposed on the MME's end.
Better charging infrastructure will help dependability, but the root delay constraints will still remain.

It is ironic... We're buying these really fast cars to arrive a lot slower. ?
 

dbsb3233

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What do you mean by "conditioned?" Does this occur over time or is there something the owner does? Thanks.
Apparently the battery back has to be the right temperature for charging to work most efficiently (i.e. to accept full 150 kW power). Cold in particular affects that (excessive heat too but not as much).

The car has systems to warm or cool the battery pack as necessary (i.e. "condition" it), but it takes a while.

There was hope that just driving it for some time would be sufficient simply from normal use (like driving 2 hours on the first leg of a road trip before getting off the highway for a charge). But it's appearing it's not doing that in some of the review videos. Sounds like just driving the car will warm the battery pack some but not enough.

Although some suggest the car might do that if the route is programmed in and told to condition the battery for charging, which uses additional energy up and shortens range.
 

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What do you mean by "conditioned?" Does this occur over time or is there something the owner does? Thanks.
The battery management system needs to heat up a cold battery to make the subsequent charging much more efficient. What Tesla does is see that you've got a charging waypoint in your route and automatically warms the battery. The Mach E doesn't seem to follow that paradigm, and apparently if its really cold just driving doesn't warm it up either.

In other seasons it probably isn't neccessary, but I still expect Ford to learn the lesson and modify the NAV to coordinate with the battery management system to warm the batteries when it knows you're going to a charger.

When your car is parked at home or work, you can preprogram the car to knwo what time you're leaving in the morning and night, and it will automatically warm the car (and ostensibly the battery) for your planned commute.
 

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When your car is parked at home or work, you can preprogram the car to knwo what time you're leaving in the morning and night, and it will automatically warm the car (and ostensibly the battery) for your planned commute.
Yep. Although from a logistical standpoint, that only helps cabin comfort, not DCFC charging (since no one would head straight to a DCFC charger if they have home charging).
 

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Yep. Although from a logistical standpoint, that only helps cabin comfort, not DCFC charging (since no one would head straight to a DCFC charger if they have home charging).
True, but presumably it warms the battery some so that it is more efficient when you pull away.
 

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True, but presumably it warms the battery some so that it is more efficient when you pull away.
Indeed the "Go Times" on the Focus Electric did both: warm up the cabin and the batteries.

That feature, however, is designed more for commuting than a long distance trip (it would be useful in the morning of each drive day but if the car doesn't keep the batteries warm in the cold then they still might not be warm enough when you hit that DCFC).
 

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True, but presumably it warms the battery some so that it is more efficient when you pull away.
Sure. I guess I shouldn't have said "only helps cabin comfort". It has a few benefits. I just meant that helping a DCFC charge isn't one of them. Since someone plugging in at home surely won't DCFC charge until they're 2 hours down the road.
 

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Better charging infrastructure will help dependability, but the root delay constraints will still remain.

It is ironic... We're buying these really fast cars to arrive a lot slower. ?
You think you are arriving a lot slower, but the blame is you are driving too far and too much. Drive less and move closer to your main destination. I did this in 1977 and drove less than 16 miles a day for 37 years, so calculate how much gas and money I saved. Even now I drive lesser and spend lesser, about 300 miles a month. When I get my Mach-E it will last about a month with just one overnight charge.
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