2022 deliveries still qualify for tax credit under the old bill?

4sallypat

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@Ford Motor Company
An opinion, offering, option on this would be GREATLY appreciated.

You have THOUSANDS of prospective customers that are concerned about this. $7,500 is more than 10% of the MSRP purchase price of a Mustang Mach-E. We/They are worried that we/they may not be able to afford their Ford product if the purchase price suddenly increases 10-15% without this tax credit.

With Ford cutting off all 2022 model year orders early in the year, on April 15, and thousands of those orders potentially not being delivered in the 7.5 months between April 15, 2022 and December 31, 2022, this is a SIGNIFICANT concern. Many of these orders were placed with statements from dealers or Ford content stating a 5-6 month delivery intent.

- Is the “Binding Contract” clause an option that will allow your prospective customers to retain the $7,500 tax credit that they certainly considered (and counted on) when placing orders for your product(s)?
- Are orders placed online “Binding Contracts” according to this clause? If not, will Ford offer an option that WILL make these orders qualify for this clause?
- Are orders at Ford dealerships “Binding Contracts” according to this clause? If yes, what should we ask for as proof of this? If not, will Ford offer an option that WILL make these orders qualify for this clause?

Note: I asked “will” @Ford Motor Company offer an option. I did not ask “can”. If they can, but won’t, “can” is a useless question.
So my question is:
Will I be able to take the old $7500 credit if the MME is delivered by end of 2022 if my online order for the 2022 MME is from April ?
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dbsb3233

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So my question is:
Will I be able to take the old $7500 credit if the MME is delivered by end of 2022 if my online order for the 2022 MME is from April ?
Pretty sure the answer is Yes. It's manufactured in North America, and the battery requirements don't start until 2023 deliveries (or beyond, depending on which requirement). I don't think it even matters when you ordered it as long as you take delivery in 2022. But if taking delivery in 2023, you could need the "binding order" exception (although that depends).

That's my understanding anyway. There's not much that can be said with 100% certainty yet.
 

vortix

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@Ford Motor Company
An opinion, offering, option on this would be GREATLY appreciated.

You have THOUSANDS of prospective customers that are concerned about this. $7,500 is more than 10% of the MSRP purchase price of a Mustang Mach-E. We/They are worried that we/they may not be able to afford their Ford product if the purchase price suddenly increases 10-15% without this tax credit.

With Ford cutting off all 2022 model year orders early in the year, on April 15, and thousands of those orders potentially not being delivered in the 7.5 months between April 15, 2022 and December 31, 2022, this is a SIGNIFICANT concern. Many of these orders were placed with statements from dealers or Ford content stating a 5-6 month delivery intent.

- Is the “Binding Contract” clause an option that will allow your prospective customers to retain the $7,500 tax credit that they certainly considered (and counted on) when placing orders for your product(s)?
- Are orders placed online “Binding Contracts” according to this clause? If not, will Ford offer an option that WILL make these orders qualify for this clause?
- Are orders at Ford dealerships “Binding Contracts” according to this clause? If yes, what should we ask for as proof of this? If not, will Ford offer an option that WILL make these orders qualify for this clause?

Note: I asked “will” @Ford Motor Company offer an option. I did not ask “can”. If they can, but won’t, “can” is a useless question.
I checked with my dealer. They received no guidance from Ford. My interpretation is without that, they don't really have a viable way (or an interest) to provide a signed purchase agreement for a vehicle that was ordered but not produced or on their lot.
 

machK

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I suspect Ford would be too afraid to comment on this due to legal liability. They're gonna wait a few weeks until a dozen of their attorneys sign off on any interpretation. Even then they're going to wait til the ink is completely dry from Biden.
 

DadzBoyz

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I checked with my dealer. They received no guidance from Ford. My interpretation is without that, they don't really have a viable way (or an interest) to provide a signed purchase agreement for a vehicle that was ordered but not produced or on their lot.
The dealers will not commit. Their purpose for existence is
1. To be a middleman with as little cost, work, effort, or liability as possible with as much profit as they can possibly squeeze out of the customer and the manufacturer (Ford, Chevy, Dodge, Hyundai, Honda…).
2. Make as much margin as possible from their real profit centers.
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Any opinion or anything that will be of any help on this matter (Binding Purchase Agreement, etc.) will have to be from @Ford Motor Company .

Quite honestly, this is exactly the kind of thing that Jim Farley SHOULD be doing. It is one more step in the direction of making BEV sales direct, and cutting out the middleman. If Ford were to act on this, it would reinforce the need and importance of that model.
 


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On the tax credit issue, we may just be trying to say the same thing. It's basically that the IRS will not add the 7,500 to any money it owes you. You get to deduct it from any money you owe for the 2022 tax year. If you don't owe them any money and didn't already take the tax credit into account on your tax payments for 2022, your SOL on the tax credit.
 

vortix

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The dealers will not commit. Their purpose for existence is
1. To be a middleman with as little cost, work, effort, or liability as possible with as much profit as they can possibly squeeze out of the customer and the manufacturer (Ford, Chevy, Dodge, Hyundai, Honda…).
2. Make as much margin as possible from their real profit centers.
Parts and Service

Any opinion or anything that will be of any help on this matter (Binding Purchase Agreement, etc.) will have to be from @Ford Motor Company .

Quite honestly, this is exactly the kind of thing that Jim Farley SHOULD be doing. It is one more step in the direction of making BEV sales direct, and cutting out the middleman. If Ford were to act on this, it would reinforce the need and importance of that model.
I agree 100% and was sharing for others that it is really up to Ford to address this, as we aren't likely to see dealers take any action to help. I was told by my dealer to hold out hope that my Mach E will be produced and delivered this year (fingers crossed, but not holding my breath).
 

SnBGC

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On the tax credit issue, we may just be trying to say the same thing. It's basically that the IRS will not add the 7,500 to any money it owes you. You get to deduct it from any money you owe for the 2022 tax year. If you don't owe them any money and didn't already take the tax credit into account on your tax payments for 2022, your SOL on the tax credit.
No. That is incorrect.

Let's say your income is such that you can expect to have a tax liability of $12,000 for 2022. Let's also assume you are a wage earner and your employer withholds $1000/month from your paycheck. By now, you would have around $8k withheld from your paycheck.

Let's say you bought a MME last week. And you don't make any changes to your withholding for the remainder of the year.

You file your taxes, your liability is $12k as expected but then you get to deduct $7500 for the EV so now your "EV Adjusted" tax liability is $4500. But you had $12k withheld so you will get a refund of $7500.

Does that make sense?
 

Regularmache

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Sounds about right.
 

GibUtes

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My MME is built but not yet delivered. I assume that in the next week or so, the law will change to the newer version. My wife and I are just over $300k income. I assume we will get no credit for our car???
 

generaltso

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My MME is built but not yet delivered. I assume that in the next week or so, the law will change to the newer version. My wife and I are just over $300k income. I assume we will get no credit for our car???
As long as it’s delivered this year, you’ll be fine.
 

GibUtes

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As long as it’s delivered this year, you’ll be fine.
I was trying to read the bill, but couldn’t find any specific provision for the rollout. Where did you see that?
 

GibUtes

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TRANSITION RULE.—Solely for purposes of the application of section 30D of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, in the case of a taxpayer that—

(1) after December 31, 2021, and before the date of enactment of this Act, purchased, or entered into a written binding contract to purchase, a new qualified plug-in electric drive motor vehicle (as defined in section 30D(d)(1) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, as in effect on the day before the date of enactment of this Act), and
(2) placed such vehicle in service on or after the date of enactment of this Act, such taxpayer may elect (at such time, and in such form and manner, as the Secretary of the Treasury, or the Secretary’s delegate, may prescribe) to treat such vehicle as having been placed in service on the day before the date of enactment of this Act.


“Binding Contract” is key. Define what this is.
 

Chris COS

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All Mach E’s delivered this year will qualify for the full credit as I’ve understood it. I read the bill and page 393 is key. It states that the effective date is after December 31, 2022 (subsection k) with any exceptions noted in paragraphs 2,3,4,5. The only one they matters is paragraph 2, “Final Assembly,” which is the North America final assembly requirement which applies as soon as the bill become law. The cited subsection above, the transition rule, would then apply to those EVs not made in North America. In other words, a purchase agreement will be needed for an Ioniq 5 or EV6 of you have yet to get it by the time the bill is signed. Not for the Mach E since it’s made in Mexico.
Ford Mustang Mach-E 2022 deliveries still qualify for tax credit under the old bill? 27DCBDA1-D1FE-4A47-AD61-10A592521780
 

Monke

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All Mach E’s delivered this year will qualify for the full credit as I’ve understood it. I read the bill and page 393 is key. It states that the effective date is after December 31, 2022 (subsection k) with any exceptions noted in paragraphs 2,3,4,5. The only one they matters is paragraph 2, “Final Assembly,” which is the North America final assembly requirement which applies as soon as the bill become law. The cited subsection above, the transition rule, would then apply to those EVs not made in North America. In other words, a purchase agreement will be needed for an Ioniq 5 or EV6 of you have yet to get it by the time the bill is signed. Not for the Mach E since it’s made in Mexico.
Will the one EV every three year limit apply to a person who takes the delivery of a Mach E in 2022 but after the bill is signed?
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