240 Volt Charger in old Oven Circuit Breaker

[dbsb3233]

https://www.thespruce.com/calculate-electrical-circuit-load-capacity-1152739

https://www.hunker.com/12001460/how-to-wire-a-2-pole-60-amp-breaker

Those are general guidelines, but your state or local jurisdictions could have specific code requirements that differ.

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[macchiaz-o]

How do you determine if your panel has the capacity for a 60 amp circuit?

The other question I have is how do you determine the wiring that is needed for a 60 amp circuit?

To check the available capacity, an electrician should run a load calculation. I believe he'd need to ask some questions about which appliances may be used concurrently and that sort of thing.

In some cases the panel itself may need to be replaced because the panel has a max rating as well as a max circuit breaker summation. This isn't the correct terminology... But I think you may have to add up all the installed breaker ratings and check against something on the label on the panel itself. That's a limit of the panel, not the main feed breaker.

As for the cabling, I've used wire gauge calculators like this one:

http://wiresizecalculator.net/

Years ago, I ran 70A service from the main load center ("panel") on my house over to a second load center that I put into the garage. It's as far away from the main panel as can be, about 85'. I did this to add a bunch of circuits and some lights for woodworking.

I visited the library and read portions of the NEC... There's quite a lot to know. For instance, NM-B ("Romex") can be directly inside walls, but THHN needs to be in appropriate types of conduit such as EMT. And the length of the circuit has an impact on the required wire gauge because of voltage drop on longer runs.

It's pretty complicated.

Because they were for woodworking, most of my circuits are just 20A (and half of them are 120V, half are 240V). For an electric car, that is probably fine for my overnight charging needs.

But if I decide to upgrade a circuit to get faster charging, I'll probably want to shell out big bucks to an electrician to ensure it's done or redone safely/correctly.

The car charges while you're asleep and not actively monitoring the electrical system.

 

[jdmrc93]

I'm in the exact same boat (switched from electric to gas range), freed up a 40 amp breaker. But, I have to rewire my entire house anyway and upgrade my service from 100 amp to 200 amp. Currently I have a hodgepodge of fuses/breaker panels that just needs to be moved and cleaned up. We're also putting in a hot tub and pool and burying the lines between the service pole and the house, as well as between the house and the garage.

Let's just say it was the purchase of the Mach-E that jump-started all of this. I'm not mad about it, it needed to be done. But boy is it a job!

 

[tomterky]

I'm in the exact same boat (switched from electric to gas range), freed up a 40 amp breaker. But, I have to rewire my entire house anyway and upgrade my service from 100 amp to 200 amp. Currently I have a hodgepodge of fuses/breaker panels that just needs to be moved and cleaned up. We're also putting in a hot tub and pool and burying the lines between the service pole and the house, as well as between the house and the garage.

Let's just say it was the purchase of the Mach-E that jump-started all of this. I'm not mad about it, it needed to be done. But boy is it a job!

I knew getting one would be fun and some electric would have to be added to the house, but my goodness, the costs add up quick!!

 

[jhalkias]

To check the available capacity, an electrician should run a load calculation. I believe he'd need to ask some questions about which appliances may be used concurrently and that sort of thing.

In some cases the panel itself may need to be replaced because the panel has a max rating as well as a max circuit breaker summation. This isn't the correct terminology... But I think you may have to add up all the installed breaker ratings and check against something on the label on the panel itself. That's a limit of the panel, not the main feed breaker.

As for the cabling, I've used wire gauge calculators like this one:

http://wiresizecalculator.net/

Years ago, I ran 70A service from the main load center ("panel") on my house over to a second load center that I put into the garage. It's as far away from the main panel as can be, about 85'. I did this to add a bunch of circuits and some lights for woodworking.

I visited the library and read portions of the NEC... There's quite a lot to know. For instance, NM-B ("Romex") can be directly inside walls, but THHN needs to be in appropriate types of conduit such as EMT. And the length of the circuit has an impact on the required wire gauge because of voltage drop on longer runs.

It's pretty complicated.

Because they were for woodworking, most of my circuits are just 20A (and half of them are 120V, half are 240V). For an electric car, that is probably fine for my overnight charging needs.

But if I decide to upgrade a circuit to get faster charging, I'll probably want to shell out big bucks to an electrician to ensure it's done or redone safely/correctly.

The car charges while you're asleep and not actively monitoring the electrical system.

Well, after reading all of that I think my wisest route is to go ahead and have an electrician give me an estimate. I looked at that 6/3 wire at Lowe’s and it looks very serious. Thicker and heavier than anything I have ever worked with. Having it done probably cheaper than replacing the house when I burn it down.

 

[dbsb3233]

I knew getting one would be fun and some electric would have to be added to the house, but my goodness, the costs add up quick!!

Yep. We tout the saving of home charging with a BEV, but it's easy to forget that a chunk of that savings gets eaten up in wiring the garage for a charger.

 

[geekwithout]

the box is rated at 125A, but note your main breaker is 100A. That’ll be your limit for everything going through that box and not something you’ll change without involving your electric utility.

It‘s easy for an electrician to remove existing breakers and install new ones...that’s what they’ll probably do in your case.

if curious, that painted panel around the breakers is usually easy to remove and you can see the wiring inside that way, though note it’s also pretty dangerous to do this if you don’t know what you’re doing!

He should check what the size of the main wiring into the breaker box is. IT might be ready for 200 amps service. He'd have to change the panel to a 200 amp panel but he'll be able to get a 60 amp circuit.

 

[geekwithout]

I have a variation on this theme.

How do you determine if your panel has the capacity for a 60 amp circuit? We have 200 amp service, (our home is “newer“ construction - 1997)and there is plenty of room in the panel for another breaker. The only high draw circuits we have are for the dryer and the AC. Our home is not huge, just average size (2,300 sq ft - 3 BR, 2.5 bath)
I have wired other additional circuits myself, so I know how to do it. I installed an additional outlet in the garage for our Fusion Energi. My breaker panel is a very short run to my garage (it is in the basement, on the same side of the house as the garage).
The other question I have is how do you determine the wiring that is needed for a 60 amp circuit? What is the code or rating if I go to Home Depot to buy it? I already know what breakers I need and where to get them.
I’m trying to decide if I do have an electrician come in, or if I do it all myself. The only things I am a bit nervous about is making sure the panel has the capacity, and the wiring. All the other wiring circuits in my basement are just run along and/or through the floor joists, with no special shielding or conduit - including the AC and the Dryer circuits.
I may have an electrician give me an estimate and then decide.

My home (1997) has 200 amp cables coming in but they put a 100 amp panel in. Not sure why that was done but... ohwell.

 

[timbop]

My home (1997) has 200 amp cables coming in but they put a 100 amp panel in. Not sure why that was done but... ohwell.

My house built 1973 with a 125 amp service had to have a new meter and wiring from the meter to a new 200 amp panel. Based on the looks of that box, I would guess he too would need new wiring from the meter to a new box. It is going to be very expensive to have an electrician do all of that in addition to running the 60 Amp line to the garage - just so that he can take advantage of using the full 48A charging of the Ford EVSE.

Frankly I don't understand what benefit spending all of that money will yield? BEV's should not be allowed to drop below 10% charge and it is generally not recommended to go over 90%. With an 88kwh ER battery, 80% is 70kwh. Therefore the worst case 32A charging takes 9.5 hours to do, while at 48A it is a little over 6 hours. Spending an extra $2000 so your EV can be done charging 3 hours before you get up rather than when you get up doesn't make sense.

 

[jhalkias]

So, if you have the capacity in your panel, and it is not too long of a run, is it a significant disadvantage to put in a 60 Amp circuit (insofar as cost)? Would a lower Amp circuit cost significantly less to wire and install? Also . . . I am assuming that the Ford Connected Charger if you decide to go that route can do less than the 48 Amps too.

 

[tomterky]

My house built 1973 with a 125 amp service had to have a new meter and wiring from the meter to a new 200 amp panel. Based on the looks of that box, I would guess he too would need new wiring from the meter to a new box. It is going to be very expensive to have an electrician do all of that in addition to running the 60 Amp line to the garage - just so that he can take advantage of using the full 48A charging of the Ford EVSE.

Frankly I don't understand what benefit spending all of that money will yield? BEV's should not be allowed to drop below 10% charge and it is generally not recommended to go over 90%. With an 88kwh ER battery, 80% is 70kwh. Therefore the worst case 32A charging takes 9.5 hours to do, while at 48A it is a little over 6 hours. Spending an extra $2000 so your EV can be done charging 3 hours before you get up rather than when you get up doesn't make sense.

From all of the great responses, we will more than likely just have the 240 put into the garage and use the portable charger that the MME comes with. This would avoid all of the unnecessary electrical which add more cost. It also helps that the Walmart by my home, within a mile, just put in a super charger station. So, in a pinch I could use that to top off.

 

[ChasingCoral]

So, if you have the capacity in your panel, and it is not too long of a run, is it a significant disadvantage to put in a 60 Amp circuit (insofar as cost)? Would a lower Amp circuit cost significantly less to wire and install? Also . . . I am assuming that the Ford Connected Charger if you decide to go that route can do less than the 48 Amps too.

No. If the panel can handle it and the wire run is short, I expect the cost differences would be minimal: new breaker plus a small wiring upcharge.

 

[JCHLi]

One point I'd like to make, based on various comments I've seen here and elsewhere, is to make sure your wiring and outlet are rated properly for the installed breaker. Many reference a 60 amp breaker which is fine, but you want to be sure your wiring and outlet is rated to at least that amperage.

The breaker is your safety device, it should trip in the event there is excessive current. The outlet for the included charging cord (not the optional hard wired one) is 14-50, rated for 50 amps. If that was installed on a 60 amp breaker you'd potentially exceed the rating of the outlet before the breaker (safety) kicks in (which is bad!)

 

[geekwithout]

So, if you have the capacity in your panel, and it is not too long of a run, is it a significant disadvantage to put in a 60 Amp circuit (insofar as cost)? Would a lower Amp circuit cost significantly less to wire and install? Also . . . I am assuming that the Ford Connected Charger if you decide to go that route can do less than the 48 Amps too.

It would cost only a little less unless you need to upgrade the feed into your home. The only price difference (if only a lower amp is chosen) is the sizing of the wires. IT saves you a little bit not much. But be aware, at some point people might get 2 electric cars and both need to charge. Will it still be enough then?

 

[tomterky]

Just want to thank everyone again for their assistance! Had the electrician out the other day. We are going have a separate EV meter installed with a 100amp panel. I will also have a Clipper Creek HCS-50 installed. This should provide plenty of charge but also give the wife and I more space in both electrical boxes for different home improvement options that we want to do in the future for the house.

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