36,000 mile report card

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With a fully updated car as of Friday, I can say that the brake regeneration change is very noticeable. I used to turn on L, and when I came off the accelerator that car would noticeably brake. It barely brakes at all now. It will take some getting used to this change.

Also, while I'm not a FORSCan expert, I used it a bit on my 2013 F-150. I am of the belief that while some things can be changed back to "As Built", whether with FORScan or FDRS, you can't turn back the clock on everything and make the entire vehicle just like it came off the line.

Also, to point out some things on warranty. First, Ford has not made any statement on whether a vehicle will be updated, whether by OTA or by the dealer, after the expiration of the 36 months / 36,000 miles bumper to bumper warranty. Second, any issue that you had before warranty expired that continues after warranty expired, still needs to be handled by them for free. So, if they did an update before it expired and that broke something, they'd have to fix it after warranty expired. Third, if they do updates after warranty expired and that breaks anything, they'll have to fix it.

I expect OTA updates to continue after warranty expiration. I expect dealer updates for non-crucial things to go away in the next few months. Dealers are unhappy, the process is slow, and Ford has to figure out the OTA process ASAP. You cannot have a CEO proclaim that vehicles will be updated overnight, and then not do so.
For me, L seems about the same at slower speeds but yeah....much less aggressive at higher speeds. I like to believe this change is for increased longevity and if that is the case then I can certainly live with it. Small adjustment to make for me IMO.

The 21P22 says vehicles over 36k miles are excluded but the 21G01 does not have that limit so in theory I should be able to go back to the dealer and get them to complete that update and then maybe my car will work normally again?

Or I could get the FDRS license and do it myself but if I blank my driver's screen like the dealer did to your car then I might have to pay for the replacement. So, maybe I better not try it myself.

 

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The 21P22 says vehicles over 36k miles are excluded but the 21G01 does not have that limit so in theory I should be able to go back to the dealer and get them to complete that update and then maybe my car will work normally again?
Yes. There is no mention of being within the bumper to bumper warranty, so your dealer should do 21G01. 21G01 specifically directs them to do 21P22, so therefore if it wasn't done then it also would be done without regard to warranty. That's how I read things.
 

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I’ll never understand why dealers pitch a freakin fit over a Fob!!! I was able to get ours to cough one up but it was like pulling teeth!!!
Meh AZURE came with 4 Keys with FOBs...a transit connect electric, nothing spectacular. XP operating system just to diagnose if the van gets sick....MACH E is sky-net, you'd think they would through in another 70 dollar FOB, every owner on here has mentioned how they had to torture the dealer like a terrorist to get one..
 
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Yes. There is no mention of being within the bumper to bumper warranty, so your dealer should do 21G01. 21G01 specifically directs them to do 21P22, so therefore if it wasn't done then it also would be done without regard to warranty. That's how I read things.
Oh yeah. Good point.
I wonder if some dealers would proceed with 21P22 at no charge while others would stop there since the instructions for 21P22 says only for vehicles under 36k miles?

In my case it has been done already so I won't be able to find out.
 

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Oh yeah. Good point.
I wonder if some dealers would proceed with 21P22 at no charge while others would stop there since the instructions for 21P22 says only for vehicles under 36k miles?

In my case it has been done already so I won't be able to find out.
My take? Ford wants Mach-E owners happy. Customer Satisfaction Program 21P22. If it hasn't been done, and you've driven too far (because no one is at 3 years yet), they'll tell the dealer to do it IF the dealer questions it.
 
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Maybe you are not leaving us? Great! I do really think your experience is not a Ford problem, but a dealer FDRS update problem. So many people on this forum have successfully updated their cars and have not experienced the issues you have. But I totally agree the software is the car's weak point.

I get weird glitches now and then, and they are annoying. PaaK works almost 100% of the time for me. Almost. Which is also annoying, but I don't carry a Fob and have never been stranded. Walk away lock works 100% of the time but I have had weird issues when doing a lot of opening doors and the hatch - for some reason there is a combination that messes up walk away lock. Have not had that happen for a long time, though. So another weird glitch?

Anyway, I still look forward to driving my car. Every time. It is my favorite car from all I have owned. Sorry the last 1,000 ruined that for you.
:)
My wife and I were out to breakfast this morning (took her 4xe to give the MME a little break) and we were talking about our options. I have an opportunity to get a Rivian but it doesn't have satellite radio and that is something I really enjoy. She said just to wait for the Lightning and I told her I cancelled the order.

Her: "Why would you do that? Ford makes a great vehicle. Best value out there."

Me: "Because I am done with Ford. Their software update process is horrible."

Her: "Well, you only have yourself to blame. I told you not to take it in for updates, but you didn't listen. Everyone knows Ford's software sucks."

I almost spit out my coffee because she said it in between bites and didn't even miss a beat. :)
 

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For me, L seems about the same at slower speeds but yeah....much less aggressive at higher speeds. I like to believe this change is for increased longevity and if that is the case then I can certainly live with it.
Weakened regenerative braking sounds undesirable. What do I need to prevent this from happening to me?

(I don't for one minute believe it is for increased longevity.)
 

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I have an opportunity to get a Rivian but it doesn't have satellite radio and that is something I really enjoy.
I have been following Rivian for a long time and am a big fan. I have been waiting for the max pack R1S since it is not clear if it will be the same size pack as in the R1T. I like the T but have never been a pickup guy. I could be one though, with that truck. Still I think the S is a better fit for me. Hopefully they will find a way to get the 180 kWh pack in it.
 
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Weakened regenerative braking sounds undesirable. What do I need to prevent this from happening to me?

(I don't for one minute believe it is for increased longevity.)
It isn't much to be concerned about. Most people won't even notice, you have to be a driver who is in tune with what the vehicle is doing to notice the difference (in my opinion). If you drive in 1PD then it will be a quick learning curve and it will all be normal again. If you drive in 2PD then it will simply mean you have to depress the brake pedal to add more regen than L alone would provide. And even then, just at higher speeds.

Aggressive regen can cause all sorts of thermal issues. Ford is very conservative in this regard but there was a certain condition that exposed a flaw in the software during long periods of heavy regen. The 21P22 is intended to address that software flaw and it appears that part of the solution is a less aggressive regen at higher speeds. As best as I can tell from the seat of my pants anyway....
 
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I have been following Rivian for a long time and am a big fan. I have been waiting for the max pack R1S since it is not clear if it will be the same size pack as in the R1T. I like the T but have never been a pickup guy. I could be one though, with that truck. Still I think the S is a better fit for me. Hopefully they will find a way to get the 180 kWh pack in it.
Wow. That max pack is a $16k adder. The one I am thinking about is the medium size battery. 314 miles of range but then deduct 40 miles with the 20" wheels and tall tires (I intend to take it off road often).

I won't see it until next year most likely. Maybe sooner. Kinda a crap shoot at the moment....
 
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Unfortunately, I have learned a bit more since my recent attempts - I don't think you can really revert the firmware modules unless you actually have the old firmware binaries yourself (VBF files) and even then you probably need to use Forscan to do it, which is too risky even for me. FDRS appears to only move forward, for better or worse. I also have to note - I am far, far from being an expert on FDRS, flashing modules, firmware versioning etc. I would defer to someone like @benk016 for that.

The other potential issue would be whatever else was part of the update...I'm not 100% sure, but I think the OTA that changed the brake feel (which I and others implemented via FDRS) was the powertrain control module, and I think only the engineers at the mothership know whether anything else important was changed in that update. Even if you could revert it, ultimately your hand may be forced if/when future models depend on the PCM to be a certain version etc.
I have the as built data related to module programming. Not the binaries though.....are those available for download yet? I used to use Minotaur to edit the calibrations in my Super Duty trucks but I don't know if that same software will work on these cars. We could do it two ways, flash the PCM directly with a modified calibration or just add another small module that plugs into the back of the PCM using the same slot the manufacturer used to load the software in the first place. We would use a scotchbrite pad to scratch off the clear coating on the copper terminals, plug in the chip board and then install a rotary knob somewhere in the vehicle. We then could leave the stock programming in place and usually assign that to position 1 on the dial. Then the other positions would be for modified calibrations. Basically we could have several different tunes for different circumstances. If that same thing can happen with these cars then people can customize their software to suit their needs. However, some of us did blow up an engine or two so there is some risk.

My as built info is a giant text file. Looks like this. Pages and pages of data....

1651508405008.png

Even though going backwards sounds like a no go, I’d still get a second opinion on what’s going on with your car in FDRS. Given you’re seeing things just fall off the functioning list you’ve got something corrupted.
It comes and goes now. Some days it's no power windows from the driver's seat, other days it is just a white SYNC screen on the audio app, sometimes I get weird chimes when a door is opened or if I place the car in reverse. Sometimes the fob doesn't work on the first try, sometimes the walk away locks don't work. Once every few dozen times I come to a complete stop the brakes grab much more aggressively than normal.

I tried asking another dealer if they would like to take a look at my car to see if they have any luck but they said I would have to pay for it myself since another dealership has already performed the BC updates and my B-T-B warranty has expired. So, getting a second opinion might not be possible. I am stuck with the originating dealership and they have case opened with Ford but so far I haven't heard anything back regarding that case. They did say I can leave my car with them but I have used up the loaner car allowance so I would have to pay $50 per day plus fuel for the loaner.

I don't really blame the dealer. These are all software issues so not much hope they really understand it all that much. The cars with the best software are those that left the factory that way. Once these get updated then it's a crap shoot on what is happening. I browse the various OTA and CSP threads and it all sounds incredibly complicated.
 

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I don't know if your past 41 months or 41,000 miles, but if you are you can get a Ford ESP plan still if you are.
I put your info in on the same site and got the below cost for ESP plans.



Screenshot_2022-05-02-12-04-21-14_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg


Screenshot_2022-05-02-12-04-33-69_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg


Screenshot_2022-05-02-12-12-42-34_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg
 

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I don't really blame the dealer. These are all software issues so not much hope they really understand it all that much. The cars with the best software are those that left the factory that way. Once these get updated then it's a crap shoot on what is happening. I browse the various OTA and CSP threads and it all sounds incredibly complicated.
Best of luck getting it fixed. Unfortunately I think you're in for some bad news as many new cars tout OTA functionality, so the notion of "the best software is what it left with" is a bygone era. VW, Hyundai, Porsche, even Toyota is getting into the game of software updating their cars.

Dealers have to go through EV training to be certified. If they skimped on training to do the bare minimum, that's on them. If you were local I'd be more than willing to try and help. If the dealer won't even run a network test for you while you wait, and they want the car for days, that's insane. It takes ~5 minutes to pull codes and run a network test. Maybe I have a higher bar for dealers than others.

I'm tech savvy but not an engineer and could figure out FDRS with a few hours of reading + YouTube and got mine done with zero issues. From there it's just order of operations that's important. Move too fast, skip a step, things fail quickly. The software that got pushed down is sound if it's implemented properly.
 
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I don't know if your past 41 months or 41,000 miles, but if you are you can get a Ford ESP plan still if you are.
I put your info in on the same site and got the below cost for ESP plans.



Screenshot_2022-05-02-12-04-21-14_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg


Screenshot_2022-05-02-12-04-33-69_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg


Screenshot_2022-05-02-12-12-42-34_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg
Cool! Thanks. Do you have the URL for this site? I better pay now vs pay later. I never get extended warranty but in this case the car is telling me that I better reconsider. I am at 14 months and 36,500 miles.
 
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Best of luck getting it fixed. Unfortunately I think you're in for some bad news as many new cars tout OTA functionality, so the notion of "the best software is what it left with" is a bygone era. VW, Hyundai, Porsche, even Toyota is getting into the game of software updating their cars.

Dealers have to go through EV training to be certified. If they skimped on training to do the bare minimum, that's on them. If you were local I'd be more than willing to try and help. If the dealer won't even run a network test for you while you wait, and they want the car for days, that's insane. It takes ~5 minutes to pull codes and run a network test. Maybe I have a higher bar for dealers than others.

I'm tech savvy but not an engineer and could figure out FDRS with a few hours of reading + YouTube and got mine done with zero issues. From there it's just order of operations that's important. Move too fast, skip a step, things fail quickly. The software that got pushed down is sound if it's implemented properly.
Yes. But updates can be turned off. Something I wish I had done on day 1. Live and learn. Actually, after the first Power Up caused my car to display the Stop Safely Now message, I turned off Auto Updates. I still got the notices but I decided where and when to allow the update to install. My mistake was to allow the dealer to attempt the 3 software updates. I believed that updating via cable was much safer than over the air but I didn't account for sloppy software. Bad software is still bad software no matter what the installation method.

 

 
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