400+ mile range on the Larger HVB of the Mach E is doable? Yes!

Billyk24

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If a 2017 CMax Energi can obtain around 5 miles of range per kW usage, then the 98.9 kWh Mach E battery pack is capable of 400+ miles of range

cmax with 55 kWh capacity at 48k jpeg.jpg





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benboy12

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I think the EPA range is computed using a variety of factors (temperature, maybe even altitude, humidity). I think using the radio, A/C, and/or heat can impact how much is electricity is used. Also, I would wonder the weight/size of the Mach E vs CMax, engine size, etc.

Ultimately, I imagine different people will have different real world experiences depending on where they live and how they drive.
 

Shihear

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That's promising to see but highly optimistic IMO. If it were capable of 400+ miles, Ford would have advertised the 400 number instead of 300 miles that's been used in the Mach-E marketing. The companies always advertise the most optimistic mileage figures for their EVs.
 

silverelan

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That's promising to see but highly optimistic IMO. If it were capable of 400+ miles, Ford would have advertised the 400 number instead of 300 miles that's been used in the Mach-E marketing. The companies always advertise the most optimistic mileage figures for their EVs.
The WLTP range for the Tesla Model 3 LR AWD is 348mi vs EPA 322mi for a 7.5% variance.
Applying that formula to Ford's Mach-E AWD ER of 335mi WLTP, we could expect EPA to be 310mi; 340mi EPA for RWD ER.

However, this is all just speculation and we're playing with imaginary numbers.
 

dbsb3233

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Maybe under perfect conditions, you could squeeze 400 miles out of a charge. Meaning slow speed, no climate control, good weather, etc. Just like there are conditions that will hurt efficiency, there are conditions that will help it.

Problem is, who wants to drive 400 miles (or even 300... or 200) at slow speed? With no climate control? I know if I'm driving hundreds of miles in a day, it's because I'm on the interstate, likely at 75 MPH speeds. Where effective range is likely to plummet to 200 miles, not soar to 400. Every other BEV sees miles/kWh plummet at high speeds (roughly by 25% vs avg). No reason to think the Mach-e won't too.

That where range matters - at high speed highway driving. For low-speed driving (which typically means close to home), 200 is more than enough for most people.
 
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Billyk24

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That's promising to see but highly optimistic IMO. If it were capable of 400+ miles, Ford would have advertised the 400 number instead of 300 miles that's been used in the Mach-E marketing. The companies always advertise the most optimistic mileage figures for their EVs.
The companies always advertise the most optimistic mileage figures for their EVs.---I'm not believing this. and that is based upon my experience with the Escape Hybrid mpg and the Cmax EV range.
 
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Billyk24

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Maybe under perfect conditions, you could squeeze 400 miles out of a charge. Meaning slow speed, no climate control, good weather, etc. Just like there are conditions that will hurt efficiency, there are conditions that will help it.

Problem is, who wants to drive 400 miles (or even 300... or 200) at slow speed? With no climate control? I know if I'm driving hundreds of miles in a day, it's because I'm on the interstate, likely at 75 MPH speeds. Where effective range is likely to plummet to 200 miles, not soar to 400. Every other BEV sees miles/kWh plummet at high speeds (roughly by 25% vs avg). No reason to think the Mach-e won't too.

That where range matters - at high speed highway driving. For low-speed driving (which typically means close to home), 200 is more than enough for most people.
It is why more fast charging stations are needed away from the metro areas into the rural areas of Middle America.
 

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It is why more fast charging stations are needed away from the metro areas into the rural areas of Middle America.
More stations and a faster charge time for the Mach-E. 45 mins to go from 10% -> 80% is about 15-20 minutes too long for a lot of people.
Don't forget, Mach-E ER owners will be paying the most expensive rate at around the slowest charging power on road trips using the EA network.
 

dbsb3233

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It is why more fast charging stations are needed away from the metro areas into the rural areas of Middle America.
Totally agree. Since most new BEVs have 200+ mile range, retail charging stations are mostly for travelers, not locals. Locals will just charge at home, or work. If they don't have L2 capability there daily, they really shouldn't be buying a BEV.

Travelers need retail stations along the highways (preferably paired with restaurants). I think it would be a mistake to flood the cities with retail L3 stations. (More hotels could use L2 chargers though.)

Unfortunately the other 2 obstacles to long road trips with BEVs still remain -- slow charge times, and short range at high speeds. Even if you have good highway coverage for retail charging stations, being limited to 2-hour driving legs with 30-45 minute charges between each one just doesn't cut it if you're going long distance. I can accept one 30-45 minute charge stop (for lunch) along the route. But I draw the line at multiple 30-45 minute stops. That's just too much wasted time. At 75 MPH speeds (where efficiency plummets), 160-200 miles probably the realistic leg limit between charges. Anything more than maybe a 1-stop 300 mile drive, I'll just use an ICE vehicle instead.
 
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There is also the question on whether a charger will be open will you arrive. Pull into a rest stop on the interstate and you might find 4 EA charging stations. The gas pumps have maybe 12 places and it takes like 5 minutes for a fill-up with a longer range than the EV charger fill-up.
 

dbsb3233

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There is also the question on whether a charger will be open will you arrive. Pull into a rest stop on the interstate and you might find 4 EA charging stations. The gas pumps have maybe 12 places and it takes like 5 minutes for a fill-up with a longer range than the EV charger fill-up.
Exactly. Being 2nd (or god forbid 3rd) in line for an EV charge would be a killer. I'd be sitting their watching my blood pressure rise waiting behind a car in front of me for half an hour. :mad:

In the rare case we find a gas station all full and have to wait in line, at least it's just 3-5 minutes per car. Plus there's usually plenty of alternate stations close by for backup. Typlicall there isn't a backup charging station within range to switch to instead (yet, anyway). Or the old "gas can" option.

There's also the "out of the way" factor. Sometimes charging stations are so far out of your way that you're adding significant miles to the trip. And some stations don't have restaurants nearby (or acceptable restaurants, anyway). With such long charging times, you're stuck with whatever is close by. 80% of the time that's probably still sufficient (even if you have to settle), but some stations have nothing around in the way of restaurants.

All part of the compromises to be factored in. And why I'll probably just get the SR battery and make it exclusively my home car. (And drive my ICE car on any trips.)
 
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macchiaz-o

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@PSYOP Wing Man: Ford's "FordPass Charging Network" is a subscription service offered at $0 for the first two years with the new car. What you get from the subscription is pass-through payments to the actual charging network provider (ChargePoint, Electrify America, etc.) and I think you'll also get their discounted rates that they normally offer to their direct subscribers.

I don't know how much it will cost to remain subscribed after the two years... But we'll always have the option to set up accounts directly with each charging network if we want to get their best rates, or just pay with credit cards at the "pump" and pay higher rates (in many cases).
 

Nak

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If a 2017 CMax Energi can obtain around 5 miles of range per kW usage, then the 98.9 kWh Mach E battery pack is capable of 400+ miles of range

cmax with 55 kWh capacity at 48k jpeg.jpg
This shows your Cmax getting 175 MPGe. Car and Driver observed that car getting 33 MPGe at 75 mph. https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15095373/2017-ford-c-max-energi-plug-in-hybrid-test-review/

Quite a difference there... Sorry, I'm not trying to be contrary, but it sure looks like that wasn't an average trip. In my experience driving 75 mph drops MPGe by about a third, so it's a pretty big hit in range. But that still doesn't explain the difference between your numbers and Car and Driver's numbers.
 

Nak

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@PSYOP Wing Man: Ford's "FordPass Charging Network" is a subscription service offered at $0 for the first two years with the new car. What you get from the subscription is pass-through payments to the actual charging network provider (ChargePoint, Electrify America, etc.) and I think you'll also get their discounted rates that they normally offer to their direct subscribers.

I don't know how much it will cost to remain subscribed after the two years... But we'll always have the option to set up accounts directly with each charging network if we want to get their best rates, or just pay with credit cards at the "pump" and pay higher rates (in many cases).
Even with the discount the EA network is pretty darned expensive. If you are going to road trip with a BEV, a great resource is the Plugshare app. It's a good idea to use that app to find the charging networks you might want to use and download their app and sign up before hand. Driving a Tesla you have access to the supercharger network, but even then it's a good idea to have a backup plan. If you need to charge and the station you were planning on using goes down due to unforeseen circumstances, a back up can save your day.

Lots of things can conspire to dramatically reduce your range. Speeds higher than 55 mph, rain, wind, hills are all going to reduce your range, sometimes by a lot. I like to drive 75, but sometimes it's faster to drive 55 if it means being able to skip a charging session en-route. For instance, if you need to drive 160 miles, that could burn up 240 miles of range if you drive fast. Since you really want to leave 20% in the battery you need to have a car rated for 300 miles range to make the trip without stopping. Of course, that's only if you want to drive straight through. if you plan on stopping for a rest room break, just do that while charging. Even with the relatively slow charge rate of 46 miles in 10 minutes, the time spent using the restroom and grabbing a drink should suffice to get you the charge you need to complete your journey driving 75 mph. But if your EPA range is less than 300, you'll be having a meal while you wait for enough charge to continue.
 

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