400+ mile range on the Larger HVB of the Mach E is doable? Yes!

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Billyk24

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This shows your Cmax getting 175 MPGe. Car and Driver observed that car getting 33 MPGe at 75 mph. https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15095373/2017-ford-c-max-energi-plug-in-hybrid-test-review/

Quite a difference there... Sorry, I'm not trying to be contrary, but it sure looks like that wasn't an average trip. In my experience driving 75 mph drops MPGe by about a third, so it's a pretty big hit in range. But that still doesn't explain the difference between your numbers and Car and Driver's numbers.
Not an apple to apple comparison. Was not driving 75mph.





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timbop

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I don't think your experience will transfer to the Mach-E. The Mach-e is likely to be much heavier, and I don't think Ford is "sandbagging" that much. It's possible they are underestimating a little, but I think the battery management system is reserving more of the battery as a buffer so the range won't decrease as quickly after years of drain/recharge cycles.
 

TheSteelRider

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In the rare case we find a gas station all full and have to wait in line, at least it's just 3-5 minutes per car. Plus there's usually plenty of alternate stations close by for backup. Typlicall there isn't a backup charging station within range to switch to instead (yet, anyway). Or the old "gas can" option.
In fact, due to competition, you almost NEVER encounter a single gas station along a route. Almost always, they arrive in pairs (or more). I once got curious about this (you see it in fast food chains as well), and what I read was that, the first company that builds a retail location has to do deep market analysis to make a business case before investing so much $$$ in a location. So, it is a no-brainer for a competitor to build a location across the street.

What we really need in EV charging is a simliar ultra-competitive market
 

dbsb3233

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In fact, due to competition, you almost NEVER encounter a single gas station along a route. Almost always, they arrive in pairs (or more). I once got curious about this (you see it in fast food chains as well), and what I read was that, the first company that builds a retail location has to do deep market analysis to make a business case before investing so much $$$ in a location. So, it is a no-brainer for a competitor to build a location across the street.

What we really need in EV charging is a simliar ultra-competitive market
While more competition is always great, not sure we're gonna get it for this. There just isn't likely to be enough demand for it, IMO. Most people will charge their BEVs at home. Only a small% of BEV charging will be at retail L3 stations. Without high demand, there's not going to be a rush to build a ton of competing stations.

Where we need them is along highways for travelers. But even then I think demand will stay fairly low, as lots of people realize it's easier just to leave the BEV at home on road trips and use an ICE vehicle instead.
 

jeffdawgfan

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Not gonna get 400 miles per charge. Not going to happen. I will be happy with 3 miles/kwh. Driving like grandma I could only get 4.5 miles/kwh in my Bolt.
 
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Billyk24

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Not gonna get 400 miles per charge. Not going to happen. I will be happy with 3 miles/kwh. Driving like grandma I could only get 4.5 miles/kwh in my Bolt.
It is only a matter of time before experienced hyper-milers do just what has been posted-400 miles on a "tank". Some Cmax owners are posting over 200 mpg figures but also degrading the air cooled HVB.
 

dbsb3233

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It is only a matter of time before experienced hyper-milers do just what has been posted-400 miles on a "tank". Some Cmax owners are posting over 200 mpg figures but also degrading the air cooled HVB.
That's what makes this topic a little frustrating to nail down. Some will take it as a challenge to run a "tank" in such pampered conditions (slow speed, no climate control, good weather only, etc) so they can crank out a great number on that sample. But of course that's irrelevant to what everyone cares about, and what really matters -- normal, unrestricted driving.

And I still contend that for most people, range mostly only matters at high speed. Few people are going to need over 200 miles just running around at sub-55 MPH speeds near home, returning home nightly to recharge in the garage. Where they need range is high speed highway driving (road trips). And that's precisely where it plummets. No way anyone is getting remotely close to 400 miles (or even near 300) on long interstate drives. More like 200. Or 150 to maintain safe buffer and avoid a lot of taper charging.
 
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silverelan

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And I still contend that for most people, range mostly only matters at high speed.
Yeah, pretty much. If I'm running around town or doing an out and back to a neighboring city, 200 mixed miles of real world range is fine. If I'm road tripping at 70-75mph, 200mi (with a 30mi reserve) after a 30min charge is what I'm after in an EV.

If you watch YouTube videos of EV drivers doing high-speed road trips, their cadence is totally different than a fossil vehicle. They'll start with 100% range, run the battery down to 5-15% then charge only to where the battery starts to taper off from its maximum charge rate.

A comparable experience to the Mach-E AWD ER would probably be a Tesla 100D. Check out Out of Spec Motoring's road trip in a Model S where he was charging only to about 50-60% then quickly moving on.
 

dbsb3233

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If I'm road tripping at 70-75mph, 200mi (with a 30mi reserve) after a 30min charge is what I'm after in an EV.
Honestly, I'd be after a lot more than 200 miles and 30 minute refuels on a road trip. Which is why I'll leave the BEV at home and take the ICE vehicle on road trips (300+ miles and 3 minute refuels). That video was painful to watch. I wasn't keeping track of how many charging stops he made, but it seemed like a ton. That would drive me up the wall, constantly getting off the interstate and losing so much time, speed, and miles to get to chargers.

I know he was delivering a vehicle halfway across the country, so he had no choice. It's nice to know it's possible. But that's not even close to preferable for my tastes.
 

silverelan

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Honestly, I'd be after a lot more than 200 miles and 30 minute refuels on a road trip. Which is why I'll leave the BEV at home and take the ICE vehicle on road trips (300+ miles and 3 minute refuels). That video was painful to watch. I wasn't keeping track of how many charging stops he made, but it seemed like a ton. That would drive me up the wall, constantly getting off the interstate and losing so much time, speed, and miles to get to chargers.

I know he was delivering a vehicle halfway across the country, so he had no choice. It's nice to know it's possible. But that's not even close to preferable for my tastes.
@dbsb3233, I'd submit that your 800mi straight-shot road trips are an outlier in tolerance levels so I can understand why you'd want to just gas & go.

For most people though, if their tolerance for being in the car all day is 10-12 hours, then 600mi per day in the Mach-E ER will be fine.
 

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@dbsb3233, I'd submit that your 800mi straight-shot road trips are an outlier in tolerance levels so I can understand why you'd want to just gas & go.

For most people though, if their tolerance for being in the car all day is 10-12 hours, then 600mi per day in the Mach-E ER will be fine.
In the RV world there is the 330 rule: go no more than 330 miles per day or stop at 3:30pm whichever comes first--its a little bit more relaxed way of traveling.
 

dbsb3233

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@dbsb3233, I'd submit that your 800mi straight-shot road trips are an outlier in tolerance levels so I can understand why you'd want to just gas & go.

For most people though, if their tolerance for being in the car all day is 10-12 hours, then 600mi per day in the Mach-E ER will be fine.
No doubt there's a wide variety of preferences among drivers, to be sure. Up until now, I'd say you're probably right about most current BEV drivers (which tend to be more hardcore EV enthusiasts). I think on average they have far greater willingness to make more road trip compromises than the other 97% of the public that drives ICE. But I don't think that willingness will be as high as BEVs go more mainstream in the next few years. The time-efficiency of ICE driving on long trips is a big advantage. As is the peace of mind without range anxiety.

But of course that depends on just how much compromise is actually involved for a given trip. And what one's tolerance is for it (compared to the ICE standard). And whether someone has an easy ICE alternative. And whether they actually prefer to take 20-30 minute breaks every 1.5 hours anyway (and thus wouldn't be any compromise).

I'd still find 600 miles (each way) way too far to take the BEV over my ICE. Frankly, with a perfectly good ICE option still sitting in the garage, my limit will probably be one full daily charge. Which at interstate speeds is probably 200 miles round trip. Anything more than that I'll just take the ICE. No reason not to. But that's because I'll retain an easy ICE option. Some BEV buyers won't have that easy alternative (although renting a car is always an option).

It's not so much what can be squeezed into a 10-12 hour day, IMO. It's how it compares to the alternative. For instance, plugging Denver to Kansas City (612 miles) into ABRP shows 9:03 of drive time plus 2:39 of charging (6 stops), for a total of 11:43. Yes, that can be done in under 12 hours. But driving ICE it's just 8:40 plus gas/meal stop (figure maybe 9:30 total). Will people want to waste an extra 2+ hours compared to the alternative? Some will, but I think most wouldn't.
 
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dbsb3233

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In the RV world there is the 330 rule: go no more than 330 miles per day or stop at 3:30pm whichever comes first--its a little bit more relaxed way of traveling.
Especially when traveling with your own hotel room. :cool:
 

TheSteelRider

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Honestly, I'd be after a lot more than 200 miles and 30 minute refuels on a road trip. Which is why I'll leave the BEV at home and take the ICE vehicle on road trips (300+ miles and 3 minute refuels). That video was painful to watch. I wasn't keeping track of how many charging stops he made, but it seemed like a ton. That would drive me up the wall, constantly getting off the interstate and losing so much time, speed, and miles to get to chargers.

I know he was delivering a vehicle halfway across the country, so he had no choice. It's nice to know it's possible. But that's not even close to preferable for my tastes.
The whole video I kept thinking, you definitely can't do what he did with a wife and kids in tow ... :)
 

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