5 Second Battery Limit due to Battery manufacturer?

[ripperAZ]

It’s certainly a safety device from the manufacturer to keep from burning a contact or a component and toasting or disabling cells or the vehicle or worse. It’s one of the reasons why I prefer the premiums since I’m not taxing it to the limit of possible failure and having performance taken away to protect it. I had both a GT and a premium and the acceleration difference was so small that I didn’t think it important. But I am over 60 and my raging hormones have calmed since my bad boy ICE running days.
I think this is a hardware component limited issue and I don’t think anything over the air is going to fix it
Jes sayin

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[Thor2j]

It’s certainly a safety device from the manufacturer to keep from burning a contact or a component and toasting or disabling cells or the vehicle or worse. It’s one of the reasons why I prefer the premiums since I’m not taxing it to the limit of possible failure and having performance taken away to protect it. I had both a GT and a premium and the acceleration difference was so small that I didn’t think it important. But I am over 60 and my raging hormones have calmed since my bad boy ICE running days.
I think this is a hardware component limited issue and I don’t think anything over the air is going to fix it
Jes sayin

The acceleration difference is like comparing the Miss budweiser hydroplane to the QE2!!!

 

[ripperAZ]

The acceleration difference is like comparing the Miss budweiser hydroplane to the QE2!!!

LOL
Yes you’re correct I’ll never get back those 1.3 seconds. I only wish my car drove as smoothly as the QE2.
Jes sayin.

 

[Neil4Real]

It’s certainly a safety device from the manufacturer to keep from burning a contact or a component and toasting or disabling cells or the vehicle or worse. It’s one of the reasons why I prefer the premiums since I’m not taxing it to the limit of possible failure and having performance taken away to protect it. I had both a GT and a premium and the acceleration difference was so small that I didn’t think it important. But I am over 60 and my raging hormones have calmed since my bad boy ICE running days.
I think this is a hardware component limited issue and I don’t think anything over the air is going to fix it
Jes sayin

I would have loved to have kept my Premium, especially being in the now discontinued Infinite Blue color, but the bounce on the Premium/base GT suspension were more of a pain than dealing with the 5 second limit on the GT PE. Those are just the 2 sticking points - Premium has bounce, GT has bounce and 5 second limit, GT PE has just the 5 second limit. If all of these were resolved, it would be a harder choice. I am much happier with the GT PE and don't come into the 5 second power limit too often, but I due occasionally and wish it were resolved but love not having the bounce!

 

[silverelan]

LOL
Yes you’re correct I’ll never get back those 1.3 seconds. I only wish my car drove as smoothly as the QE2.
Jes sayin.

I take issue with the claim that the 4X does 0-60 in 4.8 seconds, it's realistically more like 5.1+ but whatever, I take your point.

The fact is, the GT/GTPE acceleration is a very enjoyable party trick to share and definitely enables me to safely squirt past traffic that I otherwise wouldn't get thru in time.

I really want Donna Dickson, Ron Heiser, Dave Pericak, or Darren Palmer to tell the community of MME owners what's up with the 5 Seconds Rule and if it's going to change or is this the best it'll ever be. And if this is the max, then why release a product that falls so short to the Model Y Performance?

 

[Tngo23]

It’s certainly a safety device from the manufacturer to keep from burning a contact or a component and toasting or disabling cells or the vehicle or worse. It’s one of the reasons why I prefer the premiums since I’m not taxing it to the limit of possible failure and having performance taken away to protect it. I had both a GT and a premium and the acceleration difference was so small that I didn’t think it important. But I am over 60 and my raging hormones have calmed since my bad boy ICE running days.
I think this is a hardware component limited issue and I don’t think anything over the air is going to fix it
Jes sayin

That is an excellent point Ripper!
The limit of a certain burst of power is a Hardware set up with the battery (Manufacturer) and don't know why a lot of Ppl on here think an OTA could be an option for the Ford Engineers. However, there could be something else, that consumers like us have no idea Why!....

My educated 2 cents.....

 

[ripperAZ]

That is an excellent point Ripper!
The limit of a certain burst of power is a Hardware set up with the battery (Manufacturer) and don't know why a lot of Ppl on here think an OTA could be an option for the Ford Engineers. However, there could be something else, that consumers like us have no idea Why!....

My educated 2 cents.....

Yeah. I think Ford is experiencing what Tesla experienced their first couple years with some questionable components impacting the entire drive framework. Certainly the high voltage issues that we see in the charging issues we see with the separately purchase charger are indications of some really questionable bits and pieces. Some really cheap chips some really thin circuit boards
As I said another thread the tiny 12 V battery they put in there which is smaller than the one in my new JetSki is a joke considering it’s supposed to maintain all the electronics offboard of the running batteries. They can say they did it to save weight or size ……I think they did it to save 50 bucks

Jes sayin

 

[2021-MMEx-RT1]

Yes, but the Premium, CA Route 1 and Select do NOT have any kind of 5 second limit at all. Sure, they're slower off the line, but I believe people have posted times of a Premium vs GT/GT PE and the Premium pulls away once the GT throttles.

 

[8Urchvy]

I'm sure there is some engineer that ran calcs which said there is a 95% confidence that xyz part won't fail. And then they asked him to make adjustments to get the fail rate up to 99%...and the 5 second limiter was born!

Just give me what I paid for...please!

 

[kltye]

Yes, but the Premium, CA Route 1 and Select do NOT have any kind of 5 second limit at all. Sure, they're slower off the line, but I believe people have posted times of a Premium vs GT/GT PE and the Premium pulls away once the GT throttles.

I'm not sure what's happening above 70mph, but the motors of the GT/PE can draw much more current than the non-GTs (obviously). Battery packs are rated to be able to put out so much power over a given period of time; pulling more than that could permanently damage a pack. I'm guessing that's part of what's happening here, apart from possibly wiring and inverters that aren't rated for such high current draw over a long period of time.

 

[Mach1E]

The GT draws substantially more current than the other models. not too far from 1000A foot on the floor. You'd think that much current would heat something up.

That’s the common theory.

But multiple logs of back to back 0-100 mph full throttle runs in a GTPE prove otherwise. The only components that start to get hot actually start cooling almost immediately and during the 5 seconds revert to normal temps.

Just like with battery capacity and charging curves, Ford was waaaaaaaaay too conservative with the 5 seconds. And hopefully they’ll fix it like the other two things.

Heres a temp log posted here (not mine):

 

[Chainspell]

I would have loved to have kept my Premium, especially being in the now discontinued Infinite Blue color, but the bounce on the Premium/base GT suspension were more of a pain than dealing with the 5 second limit on the GT PE. Those are just the 2 sticking points - Premium has bounce, GT has bounce and 5 second limit, GT PE has just the 5 second limit. If all of these were resolved, it would be a harder choice. I am much happier with the GT PE and don't come into the 5 second power limit too often, but I due occasionally and wish it were resolved but love not having the bounce!

Thanks for pointing this out. Where do I spend more time while driving?

bumpy ass roads all over my city or >5 sec of max acceleration?

 

[Mach-Lee]

That’s the common theory.

But multiple logs of back to back 0-100 mph full throttle runs in a GTPE prove otherwise. The only components that start to get hot actually start cooling almost immediately and during the 5 seconds revert to normal temps.

Just like with battery capacity and charging curves, Ford was waaaaaaaaay too conservative with the 5 seconds. And hopefully they’ll fix it like the other two things.

Heres a temp log posted here (not mine):

I believe the engineers' concern was heating in connections and areas that don't have temperature sensors. Just because you don't see crazy temps on scan data doesn't mean they aren't happening somewhere. Components only have a certain surge capacity. If the full current continued for too long it may have melted connectors or started to make bus bars or cell tabs get too hot and melt their insulation or risk thermal runaway in a cell. I believe the pack was designed way back when it was thought the Mach-E was going to be a compliance car only. With unexpected popularity, it was likely later decided to add a GT model, but it uses the same pack as the regular models to save on manufacturing costs. To make due with the existing pack design, "surge" capacity was added, similar in concept to overboost on a turbo car like the Focus ST.

The 4X premium draws up to 750A, while the GTPE draws up to 1050A IIRC. 750A is probably what the pack was designed for, so the extra 300A is an overboost with a moving average function applied in order to limit the power to a certain average during a timed window (e.g. 700A average over the past 10 seconds).

The proper way to fix this is to give the GT its own pack design with upgraded internals so higher currents can be maintained, similar to how the Model S Plaid has its own special battery with huge bus bars.

 

[Stang68]

Yes, but the Premium, CA Route 1 and Select do NOT have any kind of 5 second limit at all. Sure, they're slower off the line, but I believe people have posted times of a Premium vs GT/GT PE and the Premium pulls away once the GT throttles.

I don’t think the Premium is pulling away from any GTs

 

[concept machine]

About how long until the system can be hacked so we might be able to modify it to 8 seconds

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