pt19713

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I don't know for sure if there is/isn't but I do give Bjørn the benefit of the doubt since he showed his work. 84-85 kWh usable energy available in his test vehicle is plausible. We need more data points and I'd be interested in a confirmation from Ford when he asks them about it.
Yeah, I don't understand why everyone is hating on Bjorn's figure. He's the only person with a somewhat controlled test and has done this type of test 50+ times previously. He's going to have some margin of error since the vehicle doesn't display all the data in fractional numbers. Plus, 0%, like others have stated, most likely isn't zero. Ford probably put in a zero mile buffer. The Tesla 3 and Y have approximately 3.4 kWh reserve when the UI displays 0%.
 

pt19713

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Let me go on record... Heat pumps are overrated.
How so?
On my 2020 Model Y, the heat pump requires approximately 700 watts to heat the cabin. If it were using a PTC heater, it'd be a minimum of 2.0 kW. Here's a photo of a drive this past weekend. I do this drive monthly, so I've done it in a wide range of weather. This drive was 28F at the start, 26F at the end. 15 mph winds, gusts to 25 mph. Not a lot of elevation change other than in a few spots. 1 other passenger plus myself, two heated front seats were on (100 watts per seat), 60 lbs of stuff in the back (dog, luggage).

270 wh/mi works out to 3.70 kW/mile, or 277 miles of max range.
I've done this drive in 60-80F temps, perfect conditions, and have gotten 232, 237, and 242 wh/mi on the drives with ideal conditions (323, 316, 310 miles max range if you do the math). Average speed 50-52 mph on the drives, 40% highway at 65-75 mph, 50% at 60 mph, 10% at 35 mph.

A PTC heater would add an additional 2.6 kW of energy needed to heat the cabin, or roughly 10 miles of less range in my colder temps.
1614102745801.png
 

Mach-E VLOG

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How so?
On my 2020 Model Y, the heat pump requires approximately 700 watts to heat the cabin. If it were using a PTC heater, it'd be a minimum of 2.0 kW. Here's a photo of a drive this past weekend. I do this drive monthly, so I've done it in a wide range of weather. This drive was 28F at the start, 26F at the end. 15 mph winds, gusts to 25 mph. Not a lot of elevation change other than in a few spots. 1 other passenger plus myself, two heated front seats were on (100 watts per seat), 60 lbs of stuff in the back (dog, luggage).

270 wh/mi works out to 3.70 kW/mile, or 277 miles of max range.
I've done this drive in 60-80F temps, perfect conditions, and have gotten 232, 237, and 242 wh/mi on the drives with ideal conditions (323, 316, 310 miles max range if you do the math). Average speed 50-52 mph on the drives, 40% highway at 65-75 mph, 50% at 60 mph, 10% at 35 mph.

A PTC heater would add an additional 2.6 kW of energy needed to heat the cabin, or roughly 10 miles of less range in my colder temps.
1614102745801.png
Because they are not a miracle cure for cold weather range. They also add another system to the car and for many Teslas, that has been a point of failure. Another issue, heat pumps are only effective at certain temperatures. There are other things you can do to improve efficiency in cold weather -- cabin preconditioning, heated seats, heated steering wheel, and better cabin insulation.

I didn't say that heat pumps are useless, but many people portray them as the defining factor in winter range and that is simply false.
 
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Because they are not a miracle cure for cold weather range. They also add another system to the car and for many Teslas, that has been a point of failure. Another issue, heat pumps are only effective at certain temperatures. There are other things you can do to improve efficiency in cold weather -- cabin preconditioning, heated seats, heated steering wheel, and better cabin insulation.

I didn't say that heat pumps are useless, but many people portray them as the defining factor in winter range and that is simply false.
I think a reviewer noted in a cold weather situation that the car maintained heat pretty well after being preconditioned prior to departure. I wonder if that's due to insulation.

Driving up to go skiing in a Model S, my door-side leg always gets a bit chilly.

How well is the MME insulated vs. other cars like Model Y, Polestar 2, Bolt EV, Kona, etc.?
 

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I think a reviewer noted in a cold weather situation that the car maintained heat pretty well after being preconditioned prior to departure. I wonder if that's due to insulation.

Driving up to go skiing in a Model S, my door-side leg always gets a bit chilly.

How well is the MME insulated vs. other cars like Model Y, Polestar 2, Bolt EV, Kona, etc.?
That would be a pretty good test. I've seen on here some decibel tests, but a cabin temp test would be neat. You could heat the cabins of several cars to 72 degrees and then turn the cars off completely and just watch the temperature.

I've only seen one video (by @OutofSpecKyle ) that mentions the insulation. He was driving around in cold temps in the Mach-E and said it felt well insulated. And when I had the Mach-E for a couple of days, we had lows in the teens and highs in the low 30s. It felt like the cabin stayed nice and warm and we didn't end up running the heat that much. (Note: I keep my house at 67 or 68 during the day and had the cabin temp pretty low as well.)
 

pt19713

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Because they are not a miracle cure for cold weather range. They also add another system to the car and for many Teslas, that has been a point of failure. Another issue, heat pumps are only effective at certain temperatures. There are other things you can do to improve efficiency in cold weather -- cabin preconditioning, heated seats, heated steering wheel, and better cabin insulation.

I didn't say that heat pumps are useless, but many people portray them as the defining factor in winter range and that is simply false.
Yeah, it's the non-car people that don't understand the limitations of a heat pump. But, for the majority of us consumers that don't live in climates like in Wisconsin or Saskatchewan , the heat pump is going to be the more efficient choice for "normal" winter temps. The PTC heaters are a huge draw in energy. I was looking at buying a 2019 Model 3 Performance versus a 2021 Model 3 Performance and chose the latter, mostly because of the heat pump (and chrome delete & new center console).
 

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It might be a PITA to find, but there is definitely a NAV setting that says "automatically add charging points" or something like that. Fooling around in the screens while sitting in my driveway (don't judge) I found that setting.
Yep, open the nav, go to settings and it's in the middle of the screen: "always add EV station to the route". The default is automatically (need to click the down arrow to open it up):
PXL_20210224_141700110.jpg
 

GoGoGadgetMachE

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No idea if I am correct or not, but it would be consistent with Ford trying to prevent us from shooting ourselves in the foot.
serious q - I don't think we've seen anyone drop below 0 yet, have we?

I know from experience a current Explorer can go to "-7 miles" on the range screen (*). I wonder if the Mach-E would do something like that?

(*) legit scary trip, that one
 

pt19713

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serious q - I don't think we've seen anyone drop below 0 yet, have we?

I know from experience a current Explorer can go to "-7 miles" on the range screen (*). I wonder if the Mach-E would do something like that?

(*) legit scary trip, that one
If you watch Bjorn's video, his numbers are estimating 84 kWh of capacity to zero. There could be a buffer of 4-4.8 kWh reserve, similar to gas cars having 1-2 gallons of reserve.
 

GoGoGadgetMachE

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If you watch Bjorn's video, his numbers are estimating 84 kWh of capacity to zero. There could be a buffer of 4-4.8 kWh reserve, similar to gas cars having 1-2 gallons of reserve.
sure but that again leads to seeing someone actually drop below 0 which I don't think anyone has had the nerve to do yet.
 

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