Another ID.4 vs Mach-E thread

DrSteveBrule

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Saw a US-built pre-production ID.4 at an EA charger today (free Thanksgiving charging weekend and all). Had manufacturer plates but looked like a production model.

Spoke the driver and watched him charge.

At 80% SoC the US-built ID.4 was accepting 90 kW!!!! I was watching the EA station in awe while my Mach-E on the other side was getting 8-9 kW at 83% SoC. Ford is massively throttling us. Driver/engineer said they now can peak 160 kW charge.

I also listened for the battery cooling fans... on the ID.4 it was blowing like a leaf blower. The Kona EV and Mach-E next to it... silent. Both the Kona and Mach-E throttle charging at high SoC. I was seeing single digit kW when that car was at 90% SoC.
90 kW at 80% is nuts. I wonder if/when VW will unlock that for the German-made ID.4s.
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voxel

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"Lack of auto-hold in the US-version of ID.4 was one of my biggest complaints (HUD and auto-hold are available in the European versions). I'm not disabling it."

Turning Auto-Hold off only eliminates the function when the Mach-E is level. The MME will still not move if you are on an incline until you press the accelerator with the Auto-Hold off.

FYI with 1PD active... this setting does nothing or it does it not noticeable. I drove 200 miles today in stop and go traffic (ugh... Thanksgiving) turning the setting off and on - and yesterday I tried it in a empty downtown office garage on an incline.

I can hear and feel the parking brake and engage. It's not smooth transition from stop-to-acceleration and braking-to-stop. I prefer to have janky auto-hold than no auto-hold.

This is something Ford can fix with the next iteration along with their battery cooling... lol.
 

voxel

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90 kW at 80% is nuts. I wonder if/when VW will unlock that for the German-made ID.4s.
I didn't ask the driver/engineer. I also promised not to post photos of his car. He wasn't looking for attention. It's either an OTA change (German cars will get it) ornew US-built battery pack (SK innovation) that somebody else speculated. Who knows.
 

silverelan

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90 kW at 80% is nuts. I wonder if/when VW will unlock that for the German-made ID.4s.
The ID4 has been spotted testing in Europe at 170kW. The ID5 with the same pack will charge from 5-80% in 29 minutes and they're supposed to OTA that to the US ID4s eventually.

IIRC, the MME and ID3/4/5 all get their pouch cells from the same LG factory in Wroclaw, Poland. I'd bet dollars to donuts they're the exact same cell.

https://www.evspecifications.com/en/news/01402da

https://cleantechnica.com/2020/06/1...oduction-of-ncm712-batteries-in-poland-in-q1/
 

DrSteveBrule

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The ID4 has been spotted testing in Europe at 170kW. The ID5 with the same pack will charge from 5-80% in 29 minutes and they're supposed to OTA that to the US ID4s eventually.

IIRC, the MME and ID3/4/5 all get their pouch cells from the same LG factory in Wroclaw, Poland. I'd bet dollars to donuts they're the exact same cell.

https://www.evspecifications.com/en/news/01402da

https://cleantechnica.com/2020/06/1...oduction-of-ncm712-batteries-in-poland-in-q1/
Where I live it's hard to get a donut under a dollar! 🤣

Whether it's the same cell or not, the cooling and electrical systems are quite different between the ID.4 and MME, as we saw in the Munro teardowns.
 

silverelan

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Where I live it's hard to get a donut under a dollar! 🤣

Whether it's the same cell or not, the cooling and electrical systems are quite different between the ID.4 and MME, as we saw in the Munro teardowns.
Mmmm...donuts.

I'm saying that the cells aren't the limiting here. In fact, I am not convinced it's the battery pack and its cooling that is the problem at all because it's a big hunk of mass that takes time to heat up. Instead, I buy the theory that it's the related componentry, like possibly the inverter, that just can't handle sustained high current loads and is in danger of getting fried.
 

DrSteveBrule

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Mmmm...donuts.

I'm saying that the cells aren't the limiting here. In fact, I am not convinced it's the battery pack and its cooling that is the problem at all because it's a big hunk of mass that takes time to heat up. Instead, I buy the theory that it's the related componentry, like possibly the inverter, that just can't handle sustained high current loads and is in danger of getting fried.
I think you need to consider batteries not as a single mass with an overall temperature but as an array of cells which each have their own hot spots. Non-LFP Teslas do extremely well with charging and acceleration, but they cool each very small cell (and do so relatively directly). Ford is trying to wick away heat from much larger cells through the bottom of the pack (indirectly). So whether by measurements or calculations (likely both), the strategy has to be to limit hot spots within the cells, both for safety and longevity. I'm not sure that's the bottleneck, but I think we can't rule it out. It would explain, in part, why the ER has higher charging and acceleration performance despite the motors and (I think) the inverters being the same.
 
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