Any informed speculation of Ford's "charging network" charging cost in USD per kWh?

[Deleted member 367]

Any informed speculation of Ford's "charging network" charging cost in USD per kWh?

Remember, Tesla is charging $.28 per kWh in California.

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[dbsb3233]

Here's my analysis, FWIW...

I'm just assuming it'll be the regular Electrify America rates. Or perhaps they'll throw in the monthly subscription which is supposed to lower that by about 20% (according to EA's website).

Ford says it charges at 4.7 miles/min (presumably before tapering). The miles/kWh varies greatly depending on driving conditions, but a reasonable estimate for city + some highway is probably around 3.5 miles/kWh (or 285 watt-hr/mile). 285 watt-hr x 4.7 miles = 1.34 kWh per minute charge rate.

In CA, EA's non-subscription rate is $0.99/min (at the max 150 Kw charge rate of the Mach-e). $0.99 / 1.34 = $0.74/kWh (est). If at the 20% off subscription rate, then $0.59/kWh (est).

Someone correct me if any of that looks faulty. That's mostly base on estimates (especially the 3.5 miles/kWh), and probably gets worse when you reach charging tapers where it slows down (since EA actually charges by the minute rather than kWh).

(edited: I had the units wrong in a few places at first. Corrected now.)

 

[hybrid2bev]

Read through this thread it should answer your questions. EA currently charges by the minute.

https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...r-kwh-are-now-while-electrify-america-is.269/

Ford is providing a free Pass+ membership for 2 years.

 

[Deleted member 367]

Well, I for one would never consent to paying by the minute for charging. I've actually experienced charging my Tesla 3 at a Tesla Supercharger where the charge rate suddenly went in half when more vehicles began their charging. Paying for what you get (kWh of charge) is the only fair way.

Anyway, who has a guestimate of what Ford's chosen charging network will charge in $ per kWh?

 

[dbsb3233]

Ford is providing a free Pass+ membership for 2 years.

Where are you seeing that Ford is providing a free (EA) Pass+ subscription for 2 years? While that wouldn't surprise me, I haven't seen it confirmed anywhere. Only that they're giving access to FordPass (which appears to just be their own station-finder and payment processor interface to EA and perhaps others).

https://www.ford.com/suvs/mach-e/20...d=19q4_ford_MachENiceChoiceEmaill_pr#charging

https://media.electrifyamerica.com/en-us/releases/82

 

[hybrid2bev]

Ford Pass is just an app which will allow us access and payment method for the various charging providers in the network. The faqs say it includes getting access to the EA network (among others) free for 2 years, not free charging, but access. Which I interpreted to mean membership rates without a session fee based on how EA’s sets up their pricing tiers.

Guess we’ll learn more later this year as Ford gives out more details on home and away charging.

https://www.ford.com/buy-site-wide-content/overlays/mach-e-overlays/mach-e-faq/

9. Where can I charge my car when I’m not at home?

Ford will be providing owners two years of complimentary access to the FordPassTM Charging Network⁹, the largest public charging network in North America with over 12,000 chargers and 35,000 plug¹⁰, all accessible with the FordPassTM app and a single subscription.¹¹ This will include access to the Electrify America high-speed charging network. You also may have charging available at your place of work.

 

[Billyk24]

Some of us will carry various "adaptors" in the Mach E so we can use different locations for charging needs. Not all fast DC "superchargers/EA" locations are where we need them.

 

[larryjwhite]

Ford Pass is just an app which will allow us access and payment method for the various charging providers in the network. The faqs say it includes getting access to the EA network (among others) free for 2 years, not free charging, but access. Which I interpreted to mean membership rates without a session fee based on how EA’s sets up their pricing tiers.

Guess we’ll learn more later this year as Ford gives out more details on home and away charging.

https://www.ford.com/buy-site-wide-content/overlays/mach-e-overlays/mach-e-faq/

9. Where can I charge my car when I’m not at home?

Ford will be providing owners two years of complimentary access to the FordPassTM Charging Network⁹, the largest public charging network in North America with over 12,000 chargers and 35,000 plug¹⁰, all accessible with the FordPassTM app and a single subscription.¹¹ This will include access to the Electrify America high-speed charging network. You also may have charging available at your place of work.

EA's minute cost rates also vary from state to state but my guess is they will be about twice what the Super Chargers cost.
The way that EA sets the cost is by the car telling the charger it's max charge rate when it plugs in. It then sets the cost rate to the max for that rate. Over 125 KW it charges 70 cents a minute in Washington state. A good suggestion I read was to stop the charge when it gets below 125 KW unplug then plug back in and it will charge at the lower rate of 50 cents a minute until it gets below 75 KW unplug and replug and it will cost 18 cents a minute.
Depending on how full your battery is when you first start charging it will cost somewheres between those costs.
We won't know the charging tapers until someone has a chance to do a full charge cycle and it will also depend on the battery temperature when charging starts.
I wouldn't be surprised if EA changes their price structure by the time we get the Mach-E.

 

[JamieGeek]

Some of us will carry various "adaptors" in the Mach E so we can use different locations for charging needs. Not all fast DC "superchargers/EA" locations are where we need them.

What "adaptors" will you need other than one for a Tesla Destination charger?

It will already have a J-1772 & DCFC plug?

In my Bolt I don't carry any Tesla adapters; I only carry GM's EVSE for 120V charging, a Clipper Creek EVSE for 240V charging, and a 50 ft J-1772 extension cord. Ford has said the Mach-E's included EVSE will work for both 120V and 240V so that would eliminate my 2nd EVSE. (Of course you may need different adapters for the 240V EVSE given the variety of 240V plugs out there.)

 

[dbsb3233]

Ford Pass is just an app which will allow us access and payment method for the various charging providers in the network. The faqs say it includes getting access to the EA network (among others) free for 2 years, not free charging, but access. Which I interpreted to mean membership rates without a session fee based on how EA’s sets up their pricing tiers.

Guess we’ll learn more later this year as Ford gives out more details on home and away charging.

https://www.ford.com/buy-site-wide-content/overlays/mach-e-overlays/mach-e-faq/

9. Where can I charge my car when I’m not at home?

Ford will be providing owners two years of complimentary access to the FordPassTM Charging Network⁹, the largest public charging network in North America with over 12,000 chargers and 35,000 plug¹⁰, all accessible with the FordPassTM app and a single subscription.¹¹ This will include access to the Electrify America high-speed charging network. You also may have charging available at your place of work.

Could be. I guess it just depends on how you interpret that. It could go either way. I'm leaning toward that meaning FordPass has it's own subscription fee (although for exactly what, I'm not sure). And that's what's thrown in free for 2 years.

But maybe what that FordPass subscription includes is EA Pass+. Or perhaps some other special rates that Ford has negotiated with EA and just hasn't been announced yet. They may be going for some exclusivity arrangement to try and keep customers in the Ford network.

 

[zhackwyatt]

50 ft J-1772 extension cor

I'm curious how is this useful out in the world. Or is it a just in case thing?

 

[macchiaz-o]

So many caveats to be aware of when considering non-UL/Intertek registered products like these.

 

[JamieGeek]

I'm curious how is this useful out in the world. Or is it a just in case thing?

A very valid question: I picked it up when we had our driveway re-paved so that I could still charge the Bolt:

It has also come in handy when charging at a campground when the power post was waay at the back of the campsite.

If I wanted to be a jerk I could also use it at a charger that has been ICE'd and block the ICE until I'm done charging (Or I could park a few spaces over and still charge.)

 

[dbsb3233]

I'd thought about how it might be used at a blocked charging space too. But my guess is that when a charging space is blocked, it's usually because all the regular parking spots nearby are full too.

It always amazes me when I see EV charging spots placed in prime parking spots. That's stupid. It's just gonna tempt more drivers (whether ICE or otherwise) to cheat and park there. It's counter-productive. The EV charging spots should be the outer spots in a lot, not the prime spots. And should be better marked.

 

[JamieGeek]

I'd thought about how it might be used at a blocked charging space too. But my guess is that when a charging space is blocked, it's usually because all the regular parking spots nearby are full too.

It always amazes me when I see EV charging spots placed in prime parking spots. That's stupid. It's just gonna tempt more drivers (whether ICE or otherwise) to cheat and park there. It's counter-productive. The EV charging spots should be the outer spots in a lot, not the prime spots. And should be better marked.

Yeah that has been discussed a lot. (As early as the Focus Electric forums back in 2012+.)

Typically the charging spots are close to the building which means the wire run is shorter and less expensive than putting them out further (granted this is a case by case basis as running a wire along a grassy area would be cheaper than under pavement).

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