Any informed speculation of Ford's "charging network" charging cost in USD per kWh?

[dbsb3233]

Yeah that has been discussed a lot. (As early as the Focus Electric forums back in 2012+.)

Typically the charging spots are close to the building which means the wire run is shorter and less expensive than putting them out further (granted this is a case by case basis as running a wire along a grassy area would be cheaper than under pavement).

That's what I figured some of the reasoning was, at least if they're getting power from the building itself. But I've also seen it at places like airport parking lots, where they're given priority space right up there with the handicap spots. Probably as an "incentive". Without thinking through the practical aspects of it.

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[Billyk24]

What "adaptors" will you need other than one for a Tesla Destination charger?

It will already have a J-1772 & DCFC plug?

In my Bolt I don't carry any Tesla adapters; I only carry GM's EVSE for 120V charging, a Clipper Creek EVSE for 240V charging, and a 50 ft J-1772 extension cord. Ford has said the Mach-E's included EVSE will work for both 120V and 240V so that would eliminate my 2nd EVSE. (Of course you may need different adapters for the 240V EVSE given the variety of 240V plugs out there.)

NEMA 1450 plug and cable.

 

[JamieGeek]

NEMA 1450 plug and cable.

LOL I have that on my Clipper Creek. Don't really need the cable as Ford's EVSE can handle 120V or 240V thus you'll just need an adapter to allow it to plug into 1450.

 

[Deleted member 367]

Well, it looks like this thread has gone as far as it can. Unfortunately, very few replies addressed the core question of how much will supercharging cost e-Mustang owners. It seems the concensus is that Ford will turn us over to a couple of charging networks (which Ford infers they don't own or control), and that what we will have to pay to charge is out of Ford's hands and thus Ford needn't speak of it.

The problem with this is that supercharging is a VERY IMPORTANT issue for all e-Mustang owners. Tesla realized this up front and created their own charging network which they do control and thus can set reasonable $/kWh prices. (Even Tesla's "reasonable charging prices" are still more than DOUBLE what they actually pay my local utility company for electricity) If Ford continues to duck this issue using the self-serving stand "blame the charging networks, not us", they will encounter a naurley backlash centered around the customer statement "I CAN afford to charge at my home, but I CANNOT afford to travel long distances with this car. I regret buying it.".

I would urge Ford to do one of two things immediately: 1. Announce that they will create their own supercharging network that will feature the same charging prices as Tesla has. or 2. They have negotiated special supercharging rates with existing charging network(s) that will permanately equal Tesla's charging rates.

 

[JamieGeek]

Well, it looks like this thread has gone as far as it can. Unfortunately, very few replies addressed the core question of how much will supercharging cost e-Mustang owners. It seems the concensus is that Ford will turn us over to a couple of charging networks (which Ford infers they don't own or control), and that what we will have to pay to charge is out of Ford's hands and thus Ford needn't speak of it.

The problem with this is that supercharging is a VERY IMPORTANT issue for all e-Mustang owners. Tesla realized this up front and created their own charging network which they do control and thus can set reasonable $/kWh prices. (Even Tesla's "reasonable charging prices" are still more than DOUBLE what they actually pay my local utility company for electricity) If Ford continues to duck this issue using the self-serving stand "blame the charging networks, not us", they will encounter a naurley backlash centered around the customer statement "I CAN afford to charge at my home, but I CANNOT afford to travel long distances with this car. I regret buying it.".

I would urge Ford to do one of two things immediately: 1. Announce that they will create their own supercharging network that will feature the same charging prices as Tesla has. or 2. They have negotiated special supercharging rates with existing charging network(s) that will permanately equal Tesla's charging rates.

Just a nitpick: "supercharging" = Tesla and Tesla only. DCFC (e.g. DC Fast Charging) = everyone else (including Ford).

You can already look up some costs, just pick a network and check their website. The question is: Will Ford simply forward those costs on or give its owners a discount.

 

[dbsb3233]

Well, it looks like this thread has gone as far as it can. Unfortunately, very few replies addressed the core question of how much will supercharging cost e-Mustang owners. It seems the concensus is that Ford will turn us over to a couple of charging networks (which Ford infers they don't own or control), and that what we will have to pay to charge is out of Ford's hands and thus Ford needn't speak of it.

In other words, like gasoline is now. Yes, that's the model that Ford (and most all manufactures except Tesla) appear to be following -- They sell the cars, and let other sell the fuel. Like has been happening for a century with ICE vehicles.

Personally, I think that makes the most sense. I don't want every vehicle manufacturer to be creating their own exclusive/proprietary retail charging stations that only their vehicles can use. I understand why Tesla did it, as they were the first out of the box and needed to build demand. But that was the 2010's. The 2020's will see BEVs go mainstream, from a dozen manufactures.

Like gas stations, as retail charging stations expand, they should compete with each other for customers' business. Preferably independently of auto manufactures as exclusivity/proprietary just reduces choice for consumers.

 

[dbsb3233]

The problem with this is that supercharging is a VERY IMPORTANT issue for all e-Mustang owners. Tesla realized this up front and created their own charging network which they do control and thus can set reasonable $/kWh prices. (Even Tesla's "reasonable charging prices" are still more than DOUBLE what they actually pay my local utility company for electricity) If Ford continues to duck this issue using the self-serving stand "blame the charging networks, not us", they will encounter a naurley backlash centered around the customer statement "I CAN afford to charge at my home, but I CANNOT afford to travel long distances with this car. I regret buying it.".

I would urge Ford to do one of two things immediately: 1. Announce that they will create their own supercharging network that will feature the same charging prices as Tesla has. or 2. They have negotiated special supercharging rates with existing charging network(s) that will permanately equal Tesla's charging rates.

It's an issue for many BEV owners, but not all. And to greatly varying degrees. BEV usage on long road trips has a lot more drawbacks than just the price of the fuel. The far bigger problem IMO is the time loss from slow charging, and so many charging stops, especially if driving highway speeds where range shrinks dramatically. But you're right that price is also part of it too.

In my case, my Mach-e will be a 2nd vehicle in my household (an ICE Escape being the other). And I have a house with a garage for overnight charging. A LOT of BEV buyers will be in that boat IMO. That's perhaps the ideal situation for buying a BEV, and I think it will be the target market. That way you don't even need to consider using the BEV for road trips. I expect 99% (if not 100%) of all my charging will be at home. If I need to drive more than maybe 120 miles in a day, I'll just take the ICE vehicle. Obvious choice.

I know many people won't have the luxury of 2 cars in their home. Or have secure/dedicated home charging (at residential prices). Retail changing is a much bigger deal for them, if they buy a BEV. If I were in that boat, I'd surely be looking at PHEV or ICE instead.

 

[Deleted member 367]

In other words, like gasoline is now. Yes, that's the model that Ford (and most all manufactures except Tesla) appear to be following -- They sell the cars, and let other sell the fuel. Like has been happening for a century with ICE vehicles.

Personally, I think that makes the most sense. I don't want every vehicle manufacturer to be creating their own exclusive/proprietary retail charging stations that only their vehicles can use. I understand why Tesla did it, as they were the first out of the box and needed to build demand. But that was the 2010's. The 2020's will see BEVs go mainstream, from a dozen manufactures.

Like gas stations, as retail charging stations expand, they should compete with each other for customers' business. Preferably independently of auto manufactures as exclusivity/proprietary just reduces choice for consumers.

Good reply and logical as far as it goes. Problem is, there appear to be just 2 charging (or supercharging) networks, and that makes for bad competition. Also, gas stations can be created locally and do the job. Electrical charging networks NEED to be large from the get-go.

 

[dbsb3233]

Good reply and logical as far as it goes. Problem is, there appear to be just 2 charging (or supercharging) networks, and that makes for bad competition. Also, gas stations can be created locally and do the job. Electrical charging networks NEED to be large from the get-go.

Agree that there's still a lack of retail charging competition out there. We're still in the relative infancy of the industry. It's much better than it was just 2-3 years ago, but it'll take time to become more robust. And that's gonna take financial viability for more competitors to enter the market. And for that to happen with retail charging stations, it's gonna take more demand (i.e. more BEVs on the road). And that's coming rather fast. Even just the "2nd car in the household so they only need it for home charging commutes" market will be able to sell millions of BEVs in the US over the next 3-5 years. That will gradually expand (especially as batteries get better) to more people also attempting to take them on road trips. And that will gradually create demand for more retail charging stations between cities.

Gonna take patience though. As I said in my other post, if it were my only vehicle and I needed to take it on long road trips, I wouldn't buy a BEV. But that's OK, because there's millions of people where it is a good fit for.

 

[timbop]

In other words, like gasoline is now. Yes, that's the model that Ford (and most all manufactures except Tesla) appear to be following -- They sell the cars, and let other sell the fuel. Like has been happening for a century with ICE vehicles.

Personally, I think that makes the most sense. I don't want every vehicle manufacturer to be creating their own exclusive/proprietary retail charging stations that only their vehicles can use. I understand why Tesla did it, as they were the first out of the box and needed to build demand. But that was the 2010's. The 2020's will see BEVs go mainstream, from a dozen manufactures.

Like gas stations, as retail charging stations expand, they should compete with each other for customers' business. Preferably independently of auto manufactures as exclusivity/proprietary just reduces choice for consumers.

Yes, and in the infancy of the Auto industry car soles were depressed until gas stations became ubiquitous and competitive. Today the number of non-tesla truly high speed charging suppliers (>50 kwhr) in the US is exactly one. And just like in Europe, since it is an effective monopoly they can change their pricing anytime they want and to whatever level they want. In my opinion the tesla supercharging network is just as responsible as their "mystique" in getting them 85% of the BEV market. It was a huge investment Tesla made that burned a lot of their cash and ensured they wouldn't be profitable. If Ford wants to rely on third parties to build the infrastructure, the LEAST they could do is negotiate on their customer's behalf.

 

[timbop]

It's an issue for many BEV owners, but not all....

Ah, but the point is that a HUGE portion of the population is completely dismissing BEV's BECAUSE the charging infrastructure is so limited relative to gas stations. Just today at lunch I was talking with a friend of mine and he mentioned that his neighbor didn't even want to look at a BEV "because where would I charge it?". She has a long commute which is begging for a BEV, but she had no interest whatsoever - which is a shame.

Unfortunately, if Ford and the other manufacturers want to get in the game they are going to have to educate people and offer some kind of all-around solution. That doesn't necessarily mean dumping as much cash as Tesla has into charging stations, but they need to do more than they have announced already

 

[eastern refugee]

I know for a fact in LA if you put an ICE vehicle in a parking space that states EV only there is a sign that states that the plug MUST be plugged in even if not charging otherwise the fine is $450 I believe. It must work because when you go to malls in LA you will see that EV spaces empty.

As for EA I had a very long conversation with them about the mach E which he was not familiar with however we went over pricing and in California the EV subscription rate here is basically $0.69. Everything that I read shows that Ford pass will handle it all. I think it will be like Sync. Sync is technically a free subscription for I think 3 years but if you buy another car it renews the subscription on ALL of your ford cars. The service for the EA+ is $4.00 per month. I will pay that gladly for the opportunity to charge. EA also told me that the charge is based on what your car can handle. Ford's estimate is based on 150 charge rate. We figured out that for 270 miles it would cost around $21-22.00 I was told by Tesla that a full charge at a super charger is $25.00. In short I expect them to be the same. The tesla adapter ONLY works on Tesla level 2 chargers NOT the super chargers. I have NO idea what a Tesla 2 charging station looks like. ALL I ever see are the superchargers. Also remember that all Ford dealerships that are EV certified will have free chargers as well. I did a trip from Bako to Seattle using the ABRP app. It has the mach E in their app. You can set it and as a result it shows all of the EZ places along the way. it also states that if will change as you are driving just in case you top off somewhere or conditions change. EA also like Tesla tells you what is available and what is in use. This app also states how long you need to charge and the non subscription rates. it is a WAY cool app .I cannot wait to use. I noticed that all of the EZ locations are at superwalmarts or target s locations meaning that there is food and restrooms available.

 

[dbsb3233]

If Ford wants to rely on third parties to build the infrastructure, the LEAST they could do is negotiate on their customer's behalf.

And I'm guessing they are. The way I read the "FordPass" thing, it appears to me that will be a subscription service (which they're throwing in 2 years free to Mach-e buyers). For it to be subscription, they must be including something worth paying for. And the only thing that makes sense (i.e. that people would care to pay for) is discounted rates. So I'm guessing that will be part of the deal.

But at the same time, I don't see the retail charging issue as being as big of a problem as many people do. Because it's only a small% of BEV usage (at least on 200+ mile batteries). Ford can sell plenty of Mach-e's for 2nd car, around-home only usage. Not that they're trying to limit themselves to that, of course. You never want to say "our cars are limited to just XX usage". So they'll do some to try and accommodate distance drivers. But unlike Tesla who was first out of the box a decade earlier and had to convince a lot of people of BEV viability, Ford doesn't NEED to spend a fortune on charging networks. 200+ mile batteries are here now and enable probably 30% of US customers that don't even need long distance capability in that vehicle (their other one will do that). That's plenty of potential market for now.

 

[hybrid2bev]

I think if we want an expanded DC fast charging network, then we're going to have to get out there and use the charging network to build up actual demand. Take your Mach-E on a road trip!

 

[timbop]

And I'm guessing they are. The way I read the "FordPass" thing, it appears to me that will be a subscription service (which they're throwing in 2 years free to Mach-e buyers). For it to be subscription, they must be including something worth paying for.

Agreed they have to be doing something, which could be as much as negotiating special prices and as little as automatically signing you up for EA, EVgo, chargepoint, etc all under one account to make paying "convenient".

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