Any informed speculation of Ford's "charging network" charging cost in USD per kWh?

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dbsb3233

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Ah, but the point is that a HUGE portion of the population is completely dismissing BEV's BECAUSE the charging infrastructure is so limited relative to gas stations. Just today at lunch I was talking with a friend of mine and he mentioned that his neighbor didn't even want to look at a BEV "because where would I charge it?". She has a long commute which is begging for a BEV, but she had no interest whatsoever - which is a shame.

Unfortunately, if Ford and the other manufacturers want to get in the game they are going to have to educate people and offer some kind of all-around solution. That doesn't necessarily mean dumping as much cash as Tesla has into charging stations, but they need to do more than they have announced already
I think that's been the conventional wisdom (and I subscribed to it for a while too), but I think it's partially wrong. It assumes a one-size-has-to-fit-all solution.

I agree that for the household that only has one vehicle, it's still a problem. Or that doesn't have secure/dedicated overnight charging. Or that needs this vehicle to do long-distance driving. For people in those boats, BEVs are just a poor fit. Even if there were more retail charging stations.

And that may be 70% of the public. But that still leaves 30% of the public that DO have more than one vehicle in the house. And that own a house with a garage. For those people, a BEV as one of their multiple vehicles is a great fit. People will come to realize that. And that's still a huge market. Something like 50 million+ vehicles in the US.
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timbop

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I think that's been the conventional wisdom (and I subscribed to it for a while too), but I think it's partially wrong. It assumes a one-size-has-to-fit-all solution.
I know that before I started doing research into it, I had the same concern about the Mach E (I only considered the Tesla 3 before Nov 18th). Even after the announcement when I started to research non-tesla fast charging I was really disappointed to see that almost all that was available in New Jersey on plugshare.com was 50kw chargers - which really turned me off on the E. I knew it would fit the bill for most of my needs, but I didn't want to have to face the CFO (wife) with this: "I want to buy a $45000 car, and it won't be practical for driving more than a 100 mile radius unless we hunt for a charger and sit there for an hour or more". I honestly think many move on from an EV at that point before digging further.

Of course, now that I have learned more, found abetterrouteplanner, and know that EA has plenty of 150kw chargers in the midatlantic I have gotten over my initial anxiety (both range and marital :) ).
 

Trekkie

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Look up: EVgo, Electrify America, and check out their CCS or DCFS rates for your state. It varies because some states have made it illegal to sell per KW used and you have to charge by time. For Example my home state of NC.

It's $0.30 a minute, limited to 45 minutes with EVGO. If I become a member it goes down to $0.27 a minute and I can charge for an hour.

Electrify America charges based on how much their station puts out and then per minute so:

350 kW $0.89 / min.
125 kW $0.58 / min.
75 kW $0.21 / min.

and either $1.00 surcharge per charge.

Or if you join their pass program and pay $4 per month

350 kW $0.60 / min.
125 kW $0.42 / min.
75 kW $0.15 / min.

If I were to try and make an educated guess. Ford will have some agreement with these two companies that comes the 'per month' charge and gives you a rate somewhere at or below those. With EA it'll depend on what the Mustang DC charging tops out at on which one you'd use. For example my Bolt EV peaks at 50kW on a good day so I'd never want/need the higher rate ones. My model X the most i've seen it draw was 100kW but as it charges it slowed down to 65kW.

I'm not aware of any other 50 state US based networks, but maybe they'll partner with some regional ones. In my area (NC) EA is dropping chargers at Walmarts, and EVGo has a bunch in Charlotte at gas stations like BP. Sheetz has partnered with Tesla in some spots.

Hope that helps with the guess work.
 

dbsb3233

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I know that before I started doing research into it, I had the same concern about the Mach E (I only considered the Tesla 3 before Nov 18th). Even after the announcement when I started to research non-tesla fast charging I was really disappointed to see that almost all that was available in New Jersey on plugshare.com was 50kw chargers - which really turned me off on the E. I knew it would fit the bill for most of my needs, but I didn't want to have to face the CFO (wife) with this: "I want to buy a $45000 car, and it won't be practical for driving more than a 100 mile radius unless we hunt for a charger and sit there for an hour or more". I honestly think many move on from an EV at that point before digging further.

Of course, now that I have learned more, found abetterrouteplanner, and know that EA has plenty of 150kw chargers in the midatlantic I have gotten over my initial anxiety (both range and marital :) ).
I was initially hopeful we could use it with only modest compromise on our typical road trips. And then disappointed to find the triple whammy for road trips (slow charging, range anxiety from sparse stations, and severe range degradation at 75-80 MPH) just makes it impractical. That was disappointing (especially the surprising high speed degradation that I wasn't previously aware of).

But then I accepted that reality and put it in perspective for my situation. If I bought an RV, it would have usage limitations too. Or an F-350. Or a 2-seat convertible. All vehicles have some limitations. Some more than others, of course. A BEV is no different. Since I plan to always have an ICE vehicle too (or at least PHEV ICE), then road trips are a non-issue. 95% of my driving is around home. The Mach-e doesn't have to do roads trips to still be exceptionally practical for the vast majority of my driving. I just had to get over the "every vehicle I own has to be able to do it all" mentality. Just gotta use the right tool for the right job.

Now, if I were only owning one vehicle, it would be a completely different matter. I'd go ICE or PHEV. Or if I didn't have a house and garage. Or if I had a frequent 150+ mile commute. Fortuately I don't. And neither does the typical suburbanite. I think that's the biggest market for BEVs in the US -- multi-car households with a garage. Which is also good for Ford because they're not looking to decimate their ICE business, only to supplement it with some BEV.
 

dbsb3233

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Just today at lunch I was talking with a friend of mine and he mentioned that his neighbor didn't even want to look at a BEV "because where would I charge it?".
The short answer to that, of course, is "In your own garage!". Easy peasy. :cool:
 


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Europe mandated a ccs charging standard. Who says that is not going to happen in the usa? Simple change in standards would enhance all ev use
 

dbsb3233

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Europe mandated a ccs charging standard. Who says that is not going to happen in the usa? Simple change in standards would enhance all ev use
I think the market is already heading that way on it's own. Seems like nearly all new (non-Telsa) BEVs are going with CCS combo in the US. Tesla seems happy being the Betamax of charging connectors. They can get away with it for now because they're not allowing anyone else to use their chargers, and they have bulk of the market share for now. But I gotta think as BEVs from other manufacturers collectively rise and surpass Tesla, they'll be forced to compete by getting onboard with CCS. Within a handful of years, I bet they switch to CCS (or at least include it as another option).
 

Billyk24

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I also bet Tesla will be force to make a change including an adaptor and/or dual charging modes on their vehicles as they do for some European vehicles.
 

Trekkie

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Europe mandated a ccs charging standard. Who says that is not going to happen in the usa? Simple change in standards would enhance all ev use
The odds of the USA 'mandating' anything is few and far between, for better or for worse I fear we will have to see a lot more cars released in the US before there is a standard and the BS settles down.
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