Any range factors experience?

timbop

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As an "EV virgin", I am hoping to hear from those with existing EV's about their experiences with respect to range penalties. I realize no one has experience with the Mach E and "your experience may vary", but I am looking for general experience. For example, from what I've gathered highway driving at 70MPH nets a roughly 25% penalty on range. Anecdotally it also seems that winter driving has a 30%-40% penalty. What about summer driving - how much does the A/C and hot weather affect a car with active liquid cooling?

Looking for actual experience here, not just "what you've read".
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I drive a Chevy Bolt with an EPA efficiency of ~4 miles/kWh. I've found this to be accurate at 60-65mph without heat or A/C on. Increasing speed to 75 reduces the efficiency to around 3.3 . Turning on the heat reduces it to ~3 at 60-65 and ~2.4 at 75. A/C will reduce efficiency about 10-15%, so not as much as heat.
I should add that range will be reduced during winter even if you don't use heat due to increased air density and chemical reactions in batteries slow down when it's cold. That's why the battery heating system is so important. Tesla does a good job with this, Chevy not so much. I hope the Ford system is a good one.
I once drove for a week around town at around 30-40 mph with no heat or A/C. I got 5.0 miles/kWh.
That's why, to me, the 100kWh battery option is appealing. I'm hopeful the EPA range for the Mach-E is around 4, for a nominal 400 mile range before all the deductions for heat or speed or A/C.
 

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My Bolt experience pretty much matches theothertom's.

I can get a good 190 highway miles out of it in the summer with the A/C on.

The Focus Electric was similar but since I was only starting with about 70 miles (19 kWh useable) it was a bit more challenging.
 
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My Bolt experience pretty much matches theothertom's.

I can get a good 190 highway miles out of it in the summer with the A/C on.

The Focus Electric was similar but since I was only starting with about 70 miles (19 kWh useable) it was a bit more challenging.
If my math is correct, that means you get about 80% of the range (190mi/235mi) on the highway in the summer? I guess you drive closer to 65mph than 75? I generally do 72 on the highway so I'm a little under the rule a friend once told me: "9 you're fine, 10 you're mine". Of course the Bolt has different aerodynamics, battery management system, and motor but a rough guess on factors seems to be:

75mph driving: 20%-25%
summer (A/C on): 10%-15%
winter driving: 25%-30%
75mph in winter: 35%-45%

Does that sound about right?
 

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If my math is correct, that means you get about 80% of the range (190mi/235mi) on the highway in the summer? I guess you drive closer to 65mph than 75? I generally do 72 on the highway so I'm a little under the rule a friend once told me: "9 you're fine, 10 you're mine". Of course the Bolt has different aerodynamics, battery management system, and motor but a rough guess on factors seems to be:

75mph driving: 20%-25%
summer (A/C on): 10%-15%
winter driving: 25%-30%
75mph in winter: 35%-45%

Does that sound about right?
I never really calculated percentages: I just drive it. If I'm going on a "long" trip I'll start out at 65-70 mph and watch the range to empty and the distance to go that the navigation app I'm using is saying. If the range starts dropping faster than the distance to go I'll slow down, if the range drops slower than the distance to go I'll speed up. (It may sound like this is kind of hard but it really isn't after going a few miles you notice how fast either are ticking down and can do the comparison.)

For my normal commute I don't even think about it (40 miles round trip) and just drive the car (full heat in the winter and full A/C in the summer LOL).

The Focus Electric had its navigation system integrated into the dash: An indicator called "Status". When no destination was set it was the difference between your current range to empty (as seen on the dash) vs a calculated one from when the battery was full--this value was rather confusing.

If you programmed in a destination, however, then the status value was really useful: It then became the difference between your range to empty and the distance to your destination. Thus if Status was ever <0 you'd better slow down or find a place to charge.

Given that the Mach-E looks like it will have the Nav integrated (unlike the Bolt which forces you to use your phone) it is very likely Ford will include some kind of "you'll make it at this speed" display.
 


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timbop

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I'm asking for 2 reasons: to understand how far of a trip I can take without worrying about charging, and because I have a 100 mile a day commute (60 highway). I can't afford the ER unless I get rid of my convertible, which I am loathe to do. So, given the brand new battery will have an approximate range of 210 with AWD, if the combined range penalty for partial highway driving in winter is only 40% I will be fine with the AWD - although pushing the buffer as the battery ages. If the range penalty is closer to 50%, AWD is out of the question. I know RWD is the safe choice for my situation, but every time we have bad weather (had a sleet storm on saturday) I keep thinking the AWD would be really handy. Of course, if Ford IS sandbagging and the 75kwhr battery gets closer to 250 mile range in perfect weather the AWD would be fine.
 

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I'm asking for 2 reasons: to understand how far of a trip I can take without worrying about charging, and because I have a 100 mile a day commute (60 highway). I can't afford the ER unless I get rid of my convertible, which I am loathe to do. So, given the brand new battery will have an approximate range of 210 with AWD, if the combined range penalty for partial highway driving in winter is only 40% I will be fine with the AWD - although pushing the buffer as the battery ages. If the range penalty is closer to 50%, AWD is out of the question. I know RWD is the safe choice for my situation, but every time we have bad weather (had a sleet storm on saturday) I keep thinking the AWD would be really handy. Of course, if Ford IS sandbagging and the 75kwhr battery gets closer to 250 mile range in perfect weather the AWD would be fine.
That is a tricky one. Add to that the fact there's probably gonna be some occasional detours that could add more miles to the trip (stopping at a store, or the doctor, meeting someone at a restaurant, etc). Either on the way home, or shortly after you get home (before you can add many miles back with a plug-in). I know the last thing I'd want out of a $55,000 new car is to feel too limited and always be concerned about making it home. Thus the desire for "plenty extra" range to where you don't have to worry about. And don't feel like you have to drive slow or keep the heater and A/C off.

Of course, there's always the option of stopping at a public charger on those occasional days you do need to go 120 or 130 miles, if needed. And you'd probably only need a 5-10 minute boost to add a few dozen miles. I wouldn't want to have to do that every other day, but once a month or something wouldn't be bad.

Another consideration is whether you want to be charging to 100% every night. I've read conflicting info on whether that degrades the battery faster, or at least fast enough to worry about. Some reports say it's better to charge to only around 80% most of the time (even at home) and just go to 100% when you really need it. I don't know if that's true or not though. And it probably varies by model too (some are more self-limiting than others).
 

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I can't afford the ER unless I get rid of my convertible, which I am loathe to do.
Just an alternative to throw out there... You can get a 2020 Bolt with 259 mile range for ~$28,000 now. Minus about $7000 in NJ state tax credits, that's just $21,000. Not nearly as sexy as the Mach-e, of course, but maybe that would enable you to keep the convertible too?
 
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Just an alternative to throw out there... You can get a 2020 Bolt with 259 mile range for ~$28,000 now. Minus about $7000 in NJ state tax credits, that's just $21,000. Not nearly as sexy as the Mach-e, of course, but maybe that would enable you to keep the convertible too?
Yes, I have looked into that, and current inventory has LT's starting at around $31000 - which would be $26000 with the NJ $5000 rebate. But, I still have another 12 payments on the convertible so I'll have to wait until next spring - at which point I would expect to be able to get a similar deal but who knows. Anyway, I really want the E, so I think I'll just have to "settle" for the RWD :)
 

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I'm a big fan of https://abetterrouteplanner.com/
there you can plan trips and see where and how long you need to charge if necessary. I use it all the time for my Ioniq that only have 120miles range. MachE is already supported! they now even have an android app.
 
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timbop

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I'm a big fan of https://abetterrouteplanner.com/
there you can plan trips and see where and how long you need to charge if necessary. I use it all the time for my Ioniq that only have 120miles range. MachE is already supported! they now even have an android app.
Yes, I have been playing with that a lot and it is extremely handy. I didn't know that they had an android app, so that will be especially useful!
 

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Yes, I have been playing with that a lot and it is extremely handy. I didn't know that they had an android app, so that will be especially useful!
Same here. Didn't know they had an app either.

Using ABRP is a great way to see what a road trip would really look like. Then compare it to what Google Maps shows for a regular vehicle. Gotta say it was rather eye-popping to see how many lengthy stops it took when I plugged in the long 785 mile drive we take once or twice a year. (Granted, most people wouldn't drive that far on a road trip.) That's what largely convinced me that I'll just take my ICE vehicle on road trips rather than the BEV. The BEV will be the around-home car.

I still haven't decided what my one-day range limit will be for deciding which vehicle to take that day. Maybe 120 miles (on the AWD SR) since if I'm driving that far in a day, much of it will surely be at highway speeds. Really won't know until we see the real-world numbers. And frankly what the YouTube reviewers report for range often doesn't help a lot either because I suspect many compromise their driving to try and produce a high number.
 

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If you want to try your hand early use Turo and rent an EV for a week or weekend. Granted what you rent may not have the range or efficiency of the Mach-E but it will still give you a feel for the whole driving & charging thing.

Before we got our Bolt I rented one while on vacation (in my case renting it was because I had heard that the Bolt's front seats were terribly narrow and wanted to see if my fat a__ would fit into them since I was already driving EV's--it does rather comfortably...I know TMI). Nevertheless it was really instructive driving an EV around a city I wasn't familiar with using plugshare to find charge stations (we flew to the city, San Francisco in this case which, admittedly, is a very EV friendly city) and picked up the car near the airport. (I've always done this: when on vacation try to rent a car that I may be interested in picking up for my next daily driver.) I ended up liking the Bolt so much I leased one early and let my wife drive the C-Max around until the end of its lease--so, for about 6 months, we were a two plugin family.

Of course many wouldn't be so adventurous, but even renting an EV for a weekend near your home will really tell you a lot about EV driving.

In addition, since I'm all about pictures, here is our rental Bolt:
Ford Mustang Mach-E Any range factors experience? DSC_0202

Nope it didn't leave us stranded, we were on our way to Muir Woods and stopped to take pictures so I turned around and snapped a few of the car. Note that Muir Woods has a Level-2 charger which we made use of--even the short time we were there was able to put our trip there back in the car.

We've also since pulled our Bolt around behind the RV taking it to more cities we're unfamiliar with and driving it around (although much easier since I usually just get a 50amp campsite and just charge right there--just like charging at home LOL). In fact my profile picture was taken in New Jersey far from our home in Michigan and far from any available Level-2 or DCFC plugs.
 
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...Using ABRP is a great way to see what a road trip would really look like. Then compare it to what Google Maps shows for a regular vehicle. Gotta say it was rather eye-popping to see how many lengthy stops it took when I plugged in the long 785 mile drive we take once or twice a year. (Granted, most people wouldn't drive that far on a road trip.) That's what largely convinced me that I'll just take my ICE vehicle on road trips rather than the BEV. The BEV will be the around-home car....
My wife and I have been talking about a long road trip from NJ to Charleston SC and Atlanta next year, and just to get a feel I plotted the trip with a Tesla 3 SR+, Mach-E ER and SR, and Bolt. I don't have the figures handy, but from what I remember:

- With the bolt's 50kw charger the stops were too long for my patience (30+ minutes EVERY time), although at the lower price it came in cheaper than gas.
- With the ER mach-E and SR+ tesla the number of stops and time at each stop worked out really well, to the point that the short breaks closely matched the bio breaks we would have had to take with an ICE anyway (we're both in our 50's and take water pills for blood pressure). The tesla was far cheaper than an ICE, and the mach-E was more than my wife's durango at EA DCFC member rates.
- With the SR mach-E there were a few more breaks on each leg of the journey than the ER, but the time per break was still pretty manageable at 15-20 minutes at most of them, and 30-45 minutes for meal times. The cost for EA charging was about the same as the durango.

of course, if the chargers are all in use then the times can skyrocket, but surprisingly most stops at EA were walmarts with a dozen or more DCFC stalls.
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