Anybody have a solution to get rid of the max 5sec power cut off

[JoeDimwit]

I think it's as simple as: They under-engineered the car/fucked up.

Personally, I feel like a lot of the issues with the Mach-E go all the way back to its original purpose as a compliance vehicle version of the Ford Edge. I think the only things they changed were the body panels and stuck logos all over it so they could sell “Mustangs” to people that could never have a real Mustang.

How many Edge drivers would ever hammer their Edge For more than about 3 seconds? How many Edge drivers would give 3 sh1ts about the complete lack of vehicle information on the instrument cluster screen?

Yes, I know those numbers aren’t zero. But, they’re close.

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[Stang68]

Personally, I feel like a lot of the issues with the Mach-E go all the way back to its original purpose as a compliance vehicle version of the Ford Edge. I think the only things they changed were the body panels and stuck logos all over it so they could sell “Mustangs” to people that could never have a real Mustang.

How many Edge drivers would ever hammer their Edge For more than about 3 seconds? How many Edge drivers would give 3 sh1ts about the complete lack of vehicle information on the instrument cluster screen?

Yes, I know those numbers aren’t zero. But, they’re close.

We could look at it that way but we really don't know how much changed when they decided to go from compliance vehicle to Mustang. They likely weren't going to give the compliance vehicle multiple big motors like the GT has, and so when they decided to do that they should have also beefed up other components. So it's likely a mix of they already specced some parts, and didn't want to change it?? Who knows.

 

[voxel]

The cooling plate design is pretty sad in the Weber Auto video. How do you properly cool 7s packs in that arrangement in a performance vehicle? That design is more for a lower powered EV or the RWD trims. Explains why Ford decided to cap the max temp to 35C.

 

[EELinneman]

The cooling plate design is pretty sad in the Weber Auto video. How do you properly cool 7s packs in that arrangement in a performance vehicle? That design is more for a lower powered EV or the RWD trims. Explains why Ford decided to cap the max temp to 35C.

If I remember right, very bad things happen to the batteries are high temperatures involving the lithium and plating. Agreed, that Ford underengineered the cooling and we are paying the price for this. With that said, it is a glorious 5 seconds though.

 

[voxel]

If I remember right, very bad things happen to the batteries are high temperatures involving the lithium and plating. Agreed, that Ford underengineered the cooling and we are paying the price for this. With that said, it is a glorious 5 seconds though.

Glorious 3-5 seconds for sure. Once I hit 90 I back off

I think the single sided cooling would have been fine for a battery pack that was maybe 1-2 inches thick.. but look at the thickness of this.

Those are 7s packs in 4p arrangement. I'd be interested in seeing if anybody could measure the temp difference (via FLIR) between the top cells vs. the bottom ones.

Maybe I'm completely wrong the cooling is sufficient and Ford is being over aggressive with thermal management. On the flipside, these packs should last 8+ years then (assuming no random bad cells) since they are babied by the BMS. The poor HVBJBs though.

 

[Mike Curtis]

This car needs to be recalibrated for at least 10 seconds of full power. Come on, Ford!

I think issue isn't so much recalibration as it would be re-engineered - probably a hardware fix to allow that.

 

[silverelan]

Maybe I'm completely wrong the cooling is sufficient and Ford is being over aggressive with thermal management. On the flipside, these packs should last 8+ years then (assuming no random bad cells) since they are babied by the BMS. The poor HVBJBs though.

The 5 Second Rule is to protect the Bus Bars within the pack and not because of insufficient cooling. The cooling is actually pretty good as seen in Bjorn's video tests of the MME GTPE. The pack temps never got very high in his DCFC sessions.

 

[mkhuffman]

The 5 Second Rule is to protect the Bus Bars within the pack and not because of insufficient cooling. The cooling is actually pretty good as seen in Bjorn's video tests of the MME GTPE. The pack temps never got very high in his DCFC sessions.

Others have pointed out the bus bars as the possible culprit, but you seem definitive, like you know that is the cause. Just curious why you are so certain that is the reason for the five second limit?

 

[silverelan]

Others have pointed out the bus bars as the possible culprit, but you seem definitive, like you know that is the cause. Just curious why you are so certain that is the reason for the five second limit?

because the engineer on here said the HVJVB had nothing to do with the 5 Second Rule.

 

[Mach1E]

because the engineer on here said the HVJVB had nothing to do with the 5 Second Rule.

That still leaves lots of other things that could be the “problem.”

Or, it’s what the people who did a long video after talking to Ford engineers said:

Something along the lines of “there aren’t enough temp sensors and they don’t refresh quickly enough to use temp feedback to limit power, so instead they used a combination of time (5 seconds) and power over time (gray bars at higher speeds or after back to back acceleration).”

Basically they’re being cautious because they can’t accurately measure temperature spikes quickly enough.

But just because they don’t know if it’s getting “too hot,” doesn’t mean anything in particular is actually getting too hot.

Other than the underengineered HVJB of course. But again, that wasn’t the 5 second issue as it’s a problem for all models, not just the GT.

 

[Space Ghost GT]

The GT and GTPE are parts bin specials. Same battery, same motors (just two rears) same architecture, sameish terrible HVJB. We got hosed by fiscally responsible engineers (the worst kind). They booked spec’d the whole system which leaves it wholly inadequate with zero thermal overhead. So they have to cut power or one pedal driving to keep the thing from catching fire. It’s embarrassing let’s hope Ford learns their lesson on the next refresh and or next Mach E.
It’s like when I worked in a R/C shop as a kid and someone would bring in a tyco turbo hopper and wanted it to go faster with a new motor. The answer was always no. They’d get pissed and walk out after I pointed to the $350-500 associated or Losi buggy kits. You gotta pay to play with the big dogs. So it’s just not one thing it’s the whole thing that sucks and there is nothing to be done about it which blows.

 

[Auto Motive]

Wondering if anyone heared about possibly ford allowing more then 5sec full power on the gt performance or is someone making a software upgrade(chip) ?

When a Hyundai GT runs the 1/4 mile and beats our gtpe by 5 cars. Ford may wake up.

 

[Mach1E]

When a Hyundai GT runs the 1/4 mile and beats our gtpe by 5 cars. Ford may wake up.

They didn’t seem to care when the Model YP already did. (3 cars for the YP).

 

[DR.J56]

I come back to this thread hoping to see “Ford has released a new battery pack for the 23 GTPE and the 5 sec rule is gone” so I can put my order in. Instead I see the Hyundai still outruns it. So sad.

My last Mustang was a 90 GT. People have been spoiled by the newer Mustangs with a LOT of gadgets and gizmos. I remember having electric windows, locks and a rear window defroster. Cruse control too. I never considered the Mustang to be feature rich. Same with the MME...

 

[SWO]

If I remember right, very bad things happen to the batteries are high temperatures involving the lithium and plating. Agreed, that Ford underengineered the cooling and we are paying the price for this. With that said, it is a glorious 5 seconds though.

Lots of conjecture being thrown around in this thread as fact. I'm not seeing this at all.

Look at the Porsche Taycan. It uses LG Pouch cells like the Bolt and Mach E. It uses a single cooling plate, and it's not even in the battery module. Instead, it's glued to the bottom of it. To me, the MachE's cooling system looks superior to the Taycan's. Not only are the cooling plates closer to the pouches - look at the coolant flow in the picture below - the cells on the passenger side are going to get less cooling than the driver side as there is a single loop from one side to the other.

I'm seeing Ford as being overly cautious here because bombing on their first mass-produced EV would have catastrophic results for the company. I'm hopeful that they will loosen their reins as more data is collected, though I think that becomes less likely if they switch battery manufacturers as it appears they may be.