Apple CarKey

[makooy]

Hi all,

I'm curious if someone knows if the Mach-E is going to support Apple CarKey.

Apple's announced at their WWDC that their working with BMW and Ford to implement this in card, BMW is already available on new cars build after 1-july-2020.

More info:
https://9to5mac.com/2020/07/02/how-apple-new-car-key-feature-works/

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211234

Sponsored

 

[JamieGeek]

The brochure clearly states "Phone as Key". Now wether they use Apple CarKey for that or not I don't know but Ford has been saying you'll be able to use your phone as the key since day one.

 

[hybrid2bev]

My understanding was that Phone as a Key works via Bluetooth and the Ford Pass app and at a much greater distance, like 30 feet, than a NFC that has to be very close. Also the Ford Pass app will work on many more phone versions.

Don't know if the Mach-E will even have a NFC reader installed in order to use the Apple version, I haven't seen that listed anywhere in the tech specs.

 

[makooy]

Bluetooth has a range of like 20-30meters up to 100m in clear sight. i don't want anyone to open my car when i'm within a 30m range
NFC works at maximum 15cm distance for all i know.

Saw a video that they talked about opening the trunk with your feet/motion when you're nearby. NFC won't work then because that's 15cm+ in distance. That should be Bluetooth then.

 

[methorian]

I've never looked deep into how the Phone-As-A-Key systems works. I know they generally use your phone's bluetooth connection along with an app - but I'm guessing it has some smarts to know the "range" you are from your car?

Let's say you live in a condo/apartment/townhouse and part right in front of your home - would having your phone near the car (within bluetooth range) allow it to be unlocked? I would assume not, but I'm curious as to how that works - especially given the wide range of phones that these systems support (and various Bluetooth versions, etc).

EDIT: Just googled it and found this for Lincoln, I'd assume it'll be similar on the Mach-E, very interesting!

 

[makooy]

Lincoln uses bluetooth - 130ft = 40meters.

Really curious how they use bluetooth to know where the phone is. maybe on a speed/connection basis, how closer the phone is, the better the connection and transfer-speed.

Still, what happens when you park the car in front of your house where for example the kitchen is the closest to the car. you might come in the "Remote keyless entry range" while you're at the other side of the window/wall.

 

[jhalkias]

I asked Emma Berg on Twitter, and you can follow this thread to see her answer. No real definitive answer . . . yet, but Ford was listed as a partner with BMW on the WWDC Keynote.

 

[Thevanin]

I work in semiconductors and one of the things that you'll start hearing about is UWB (ultra wideband) chips. These allow for incredibly accurate spatial awareness, down to several cm if memory serves. Future phone-as-a-key systems will use this technology to overcome some of the security issues that BLE alone could experience. It's already in the iPhone 11.

The goal is that your car will be able to detect how close you are to it and react accordingly. So say when you're 30' away the lights come on and then at 3' away the driver door automatically opens.

There will be other uses as well such as indoor item tracking (like key/wallet tags) and wireless payments/verification.


https://www.motortrend.com/news/continental-smartphone-as-key-tech-2020-ces/
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/apple-bmw-uwb-car-key
https://www.eetimes.com/nxp-adds-latest-automotive-uwb-chip-as-bmw-drives-digital-key-3-0/#

 

[JamieGeek]

Lincoln uses bluetooth - 130ft = 40meters.

Really curious how they use bluetooth to know where the phone is. maybe on a speed/connection basis, how closer the phone is, the better the connection and transfer-speed.

Still, what happens when you park the car in front of your house where for example the kitchen is the closest to the car. you might come in the "Remote keyless entry range" while you're at the other side of the window/wall.

Lincoln uses Bluetooth low-energy or Bluetooth LE.

Bluetooth LE supports beacons (of which I would guess each antenna on the Lincoln is a beacon). Bluetooth LE devices reading beacons can measure the distance to the beacons and, if there are more than one, can devise its position relative to the beacons.

Here is something scary about it: Bluetooth LE beacons can (and are used) to locate shoppers within stores...(take that as you will).

 

[JamieGeek]

I work in semiconductors and one of the things that you'll start hearing about is UWB (ultra wideband) chips. These allow for incredibly accurate spatial awareness, down to several cm if memory serves. Future phone-as-a-key systems will use this technology to overcome some of the security issues that BLE alone could experience. It's already in the iPhone 11.

The goal is that your car will be able to detect how close you are to it and react accordingly. So say when you're 30' away the lights come on and then at 3' away the driver door automatically opens.

There will be other uses as well such as indoor item tracking (like key/wallet tags) and wireless payments/verification.


https://www.motortrend.com/news/continental-smartphone-as-key-tech-2020-ces/
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/apple-bmw-uwb-car-key
https://www.eetimes.com/nxp-adds-latest-automotive-uwb-chip-as-bmw-drives-digital-key-3-0/#

Note that the UWB technology specified here requires a new chip in the phone and thus anyones existing phone won't work with it (looks like the chip was released last September so if you're phone is even 1 year old...nope).

 

[inshimbi]

Lincoln uses bluetooth - 130ft = 40meters.

Really curious how they use bluetooth to know where the phone is. maybe on a speed/connection basis, how closer the phone is, the better the connection and transfer-speed.

Still, what happens when you park the car in front of your house where for example the kitchen is the closest to the car. you might come in the "Remote keyless entry range" while you're at the other side of the window/wall.

My Question on this Technology is this. Will the car be able to lock with the phone where you have phone as a key enabled? Like for example if I go for a run and don't want to carry my phone, can I leave it in the car but lock the car and come back and unlock with the keypad??

 

[macchiaz-o]

I'd assume yes, and if it somehow turns out otherwise, you'd just turn off Bluetooth on the phone.

 

[inshimbi]

My Question on this Technology is this. Will the car be able to lock with the phone where you have phone as a key enabled? Like for example if I go for a run and don't want to carry my phone, can I leave it in the car but lock the car and come back and unlock with the keypad??

oops maybe I answered my own questions, reading on the Lincoln one, it appears you will be alerted when the phone is left inside the car...

 

[RyZt]

I don't know how Lincoln does it.

Theoretically, with 3 antennas, you exact location (distance and direction) can be determined by the car, irrespective of how strong the signal from your phone is. Practically, it may not be super accurate. But for the purpose of determining whether you're in the car and whether you are very close to the car, it doesn't need very good accuracy (basically, yes/no questions). Also, the car manufacturer is probably happy to put in more than 3 antennas.

 

[RyZt]

My Question on this Technology is this. Will the car be able to lock with the phone where you have phone as a key enabled? Like for example if I go for a run and don't want to carry my phone, can I leave it in the car but lock the car and come back and unlock with the keypad??

If I were Ford, I would not want to deal with all the support request from people who left their phone in the car and don't remember their PIN code. And complaints from angry customers stranded in National Parks or the wilderness without a phone or phone signal.

Sponsored