Are other EVs this bad?

[LudlowLawyer]

Your experience is definitely atypical, and I think there are things that happened here that could have been avoided if you did a bit of RTFM or YouTubr etc. Having said that, I’ve owned or leased several EVs between my wife and I. The Hyundai Ioniq 5, Kia EV6, & Genesis GV60 platform mates are all very solid and these days, relatively reliable. A used Audi e-tron aka Q8 e-tron is phenomenal.

Thanks for the tips on the other EVs. Ya, I just did't expect a bad charge to happen, and for that to kill my battery. Lesson learned.

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[LudlowLawyer]

What makes anyone think this guy is for real! IF he IS a lawyer, he sure asks a lot of questions for which the answers are/should be obvious. Charger at the airport?.. and this is Ford's fault somehow; Plastic broke on the charging handle?... That's obviously a warranty issue and of course dealers, not the manufacturer, are point on taking care of warranty issues (unless there's more to the story); Reduced mileage in cold weather?... Never heard that one before And zero of these are good reasons to being "definitely done with Ford ". If even real, this is all less than petty crap, imho. I'd find another "lawyer". And really, two out of the three complaints are potentially user induced. Jeeesh!

Charge at the airport? Of course! There are 150 free charges in the paid garage. Just because there are things you personally haven't heard of - and that seems like an extremely long list - doesn't mean it's not so.

Think it through next time.

 

[LudlowLawyer]

You’ve used this phrase several times. Were you literally pulling out the charger, because that bit Joe you unplug them. If you were and it broke, that’s why it’s not being replaced under warranty.

Pulling the plug out of the car is how you get the plug out of the car. What are you talking about?

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

Pulling the plug out of the car is how you get the plug out of the car. What are you talking about?

There is a latch that you need to release first by pressing down on its trigger. The latch release and the pull can be down almost simultaneously — but not quite. If you’re literally just pulling it without releasing the latch, damage will result. That type of damage won’t be covered under warranty.

 

[LudlowLawyer]

Cool that your airport has chargers to leave the vehicle plugged. Did you set a charge point before walking away? Just that knowing you'll be away you wanna prevent it from going all the way to 100%. I'm curious if you checked the app before walking away, I have a habit of making sure the app is reporting a charge in progress and seeing was kw the charger is providing. I wonder if things started out ok then went wonky or there was a problem from the start.

The 12v "can" be an issue for some, its a little overblown in general. For people that use the vehicle regularly (once every 3-4 days) your unlikely to have 12v issues. Your situation is unique. I will admit though that the lifespan of the 12v seems shorter than a typical ICE vehicle, so worth keeping that in the back of your head for 4 years down the road.

Boosting the frunk open to jump start the battery is easier that it sounds, you'll have no trouble getting that done. Once the frunk it open just give that panel a solid tug and the battery is easily accessible.

Good Luck!

For what its worth, this is my 2nd and I adore the vehicle. Every EV out there has it quarks, the Mach E is far from the worst. (just be happy you didn't buy an E-Tron)

Thanks for that great info! I saw the blue ring flash and left. Being new to EVs I didn't know that this was a delicate and error-prone process that could kill your battery if you aren't vigilant. Lesson learned.

Good to know the frunk can be opened without any charge. I'm stressed about returning to my car late at night tomorrow, so I'm happy to hear that's not going to be a huge ordeal.

 

[LudlowLawyer]

I don’t understand what you’re talking about. I have a 24’ MME Select with the LFP pack that I purchased last November. Have nothing but excellent things to say about it. No issues whatsoever. I charge mine at the Tesla Supercharger across the street from me every 4-6 days and get a range at 100% of 264-270 miles. Much more then the 250 range they say. That’s during the winter where most mornings at 4 am it can be in the 40’s. I can only imagine what it will look like in the spring and summer. Can’t wait to see that.

Definitely not the experience I've been having. As for the range, I get just under 200 miles of range if its under 60 degrees, and just over that if it's over 60. I don't use the cabin heat because that lowers the range. I even questioned Ford as to whether it was possible my care didn't have the extended range.

 

[LudlowLawyer]

Nissan Leaf, Chevrolet Bolt EUV, VW ID4, another Chevrolet Bolt EUV, Tesla M3, and Mustant Mach-E. Not only have I never had a charger drain ANY battery, this is the first I have ever HEARD about it..

There have been posts on this thread where others have had the same experience. So now you know.

 

[Teslaeata]

Okay, I will put in my two cents on this thread.
1. Level 1 and 2 chargers are not chargers at all. They provide 120v or 240v AC to the EV's onboard charger. I have not read about any EV, before this comment thread having such an issue.

However, I believe the Mach-e low voltage battery is recharged from the charger, not the HV battery, when the car is plugged into a charger. It could be that being plugged into a non-operational charger "tricked" the car into not using the HV battery to keep the 12v battery charged.

2. Unless an EV has enabled, a power consuming program (Sentry Mode, Cabin Overheat, etc.), the EV should be able to sit in a airport garage for weeks without losing a significant amount of charge.
Ford states: "If you are going on a business trip or vacation and need to park your all-electric vehicle Battery Electric Vehicles (BEV) for a week or two (under 30 days), follow the recommendations below to make sure your vehicle stays in good operating condition." "Charge to your high voltage (HV) battery to approximately 90%. Once achieved, disconnect your vehicle and keep it disconnected for the remainder of the time in storage."

Anyone with an EV can check their car's self discharge rate by just parking it, not plugged in, for a few days. Compare the charge level at the beginning to that a few days later. It is usually much less than 1% per day.

To expand upon point 1:

No device you connect to the charge port is a charger, they are just power supplies, AC or DCFC, it’s just common, convenient phraseology we use if/when we refer to these devices as chargers

The actual charger is part of the car and charges the HVB.

The HVB charges the 12V battery by means of a DC/DC converter on the car only, not the car’s charger either when connected to a DCFC or other charge point or not.

Page 4 of attached, a Ford technical document, explains……..

 

[dbsb3233]

Thanks for that great info! I saw the blue ring flash and left. Being new to EVs I didn't know that this was a delicate and error-prone process that could kill your battery if you aren't vigilant. Lesson learned.

Good to know the frunk can be opened without any charge. I'm stressed about returning to my car late at night tomorrow, so I'm happy to hear that's not going to be a huge ordeal.

It's not, really. If it's a free L2 charger with no further activation needed, you did it right. Simply plug in and watch for the circle lights to turn blue and start flashing. Once they do, you should be good and can walk away.

Some public chargers require payment, and or explicit activation, via phone app, or an NFC phone tap, etc. That can get tricky sometimes. But that doesn't sound like the case here. Sounds like you plugged in and the blue lights started flashing which should have been fine. Your car appears to have had some other problem that drained your 12v battery. May not even be related to you plugging the car in. Could just be coincidence.

Could be a software issue, or a wiring issue, something else you have plugged in (like a camera), or even just a bad 12v battery. If the car happened to sit in a lot for 8 months or something before you bought it, without any use, it might have killed the 12v battery. I'd probably have a dealer check it.

 

[dbsb3233]

There have been posts on this thread where others have had the same experience. So now you know.

I think most of the confusion in this thread is over it initially being described as the HVB (high voltage battery) rather than the LVB (12v battery). The HVB didn't make sense, and that's what many responses are referring to since new people coming into the thread read that post first and respond, before getting to the later pages where it became clear that we're really talking about the LVB.

 

[LudlowLawyer]

Okay, I will put in my two cents on this thread.
1. Level 1 and 2 chargers are not chargers at all. They provide 120v or 240v AC to the EV's onboard charger. I have not read about any EV, before this comment thread having such an issue.

However, I believe the Mach-e low voltage battery is recharged from the charger, not the HV battery, when the car is plugged into a charger. It could be that being plugged into a non-operational charger "tricked" the car into not using the HV battery to keep the 12v battery charged.

2. Unless an EV has enabled, a power consuming program (Sentry Mode, Cabin Overheat, etc.), the EV should be able to sit in a airport garage for weeks without losing a significant amount of charge.
Ford states: "If you are going on a business trip or vacation and need to park your all-electric vehicle Battery Electric Vehicles (BEV) for a week or two (under 30 days), follow the recommendations below to make sure your vehicle stays in good operating condition." "Charge to your high voltage (HV) battery to approximately 90%. Once achieved, disconnect your vehicle and keep it disconnected for the remainder of the time in storage."

Anyone with an EV can check their car's self discharge rate by just parking it, not plugged in, for a few days. Compare the charge level at the beginning to that a few days later. It is usually much less than 1% per day.

I'm definitely learning a lot about the ins and outs of the LVB through this experience and these messages. For some background, the car started having problems within 2 hours of being plugged in. It was dead in 4 hours - unfortunately I had already flown off. I was able to reach a maintenance guy at the garage who services the 150 L2 charges there, and he replaced the charging cable twice and tied a few other things to no avail. I think since the 12V battery was drained, none of that mattered.

The big take away for me is that I can't just plug the car in and not worry about it. It's a a precarious process dealing with new-ish technology that is far from bullet-proof.

 

[LudlowLawyer]

On my second Mache now, have a Rally, never had a problem with either. Rally ride quality is amazing on roads, fast & fun. Mileage not a problem and charging stations everywhere including Tesla Level 3. Highly recommend the Ford Mache,

The car drives great! It's the other issues that have my put off. The lack of support from Ford, and the learning curve for public charging that clearly needs a lot of close attention.

How were you able to get a Tesla adapter? I thought they were unavailable indefinitely.

 

[dbsb3233]

To expand upon point 1:

No device you connect to the charge port is a charger, they are just power supplies, AC or DCFC, it’s just common, convenient phraseology we use if/when we refer to these devices as chargers

The actual charger is part of the car and charges the HVB.

The HVB charges the 12V battery by means of a DC/DC converter on the car only, not the car’s charger either when connected to a DCFC or other charge point or not.

Page 4 of attached, a Ford technical document, explains……..

Technically true, but it's like trying to get most people to not call facial tissues "Kleenex". It's a lost cause. "Charger" is already the common lexicon, even though L1/L2 EVSEs aren't technically "chargers".

It's easier just to go with it.

 

[LudlowLawyer]

Hey, @LudlowLawyer , one more thing or possible glitch to be aware of. If the 12v battery is totally dead, you can do the frunk pop procedure and jump the 12v. However, there is a possible condition where the 12v is not totally dead but ALMOST totally dead. In that case, the frunk pop won’t work and If the car is locked , like I’m sure it is, you can’t get into it, unless you want to break a window. You’ll need to get it towed to the dealer and that’s another whole can of worms.
Good luck!

Thanks for the info. My plan when I get to the car is to see if I can get into it somehow with a dead 12v and get a jump from the guy who maintains the 150 chargers at the garage. If I can't get in, I'm calling ford roadside assistance. Might be a long night tomorrow - my flight gets in late.

 

[GreaseMonkey]

I agree that there needs to be a system in place for the 12v to just drain in certain connections. When I get back from my trip, I'm pretty sure I won't be able to even unlock the car.

That is very possible. If I were you, Pedro, and I’m arriving late, I’d leave myself room and come back for it the next day. It would make your experience a bit better vs trying to deal with it at 10 pm. It won’t be a pleasant experience getting a tow truck in and out of an airport parking lot. Good luck with the logistics.

It would be helpful to others if you let us know what transpired after the fact. We are all still trying to learn how to navigate “special situations”.

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