Are there long-term benefits for preconditioning?

[Shayne]

I don't think whisper disables regen... as soon as you press on the brake pedal it regens before using any mechanical braking.

It is good that the brake pedal does some regen also as I do not want to toggle 1PD off. I drive whisper 1PD 100% of the time and 99% of that time I never touch the brake pedal. Not coming to a red light, stop sign, traffic never unless not expected. I think it is the motors. Feels a bit like dropping a standard into a lower gear but a bit smoother (back pressure?). Mine comes to a stop and holds until I touch the accelerator again (hold not on). Pretty sure my whisper does regen but that is not why I like it. I will just keep trying to precondition it and leave 1PD on. I like no brake too much to give it up for months. Drive slow until the tires are round .

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[Auto Motive]

I’m going to pile in here. My commute to work uses 5% battery (or about 4.5 kWh) in the summer and maybe 6-7% (6.3 kWh) in the winter. So maybe 2kWH more in the winter. If I remote start 5 minutes before walking out, then maybe another 2kWh is used to preheat my seat, steering wheel, and cabin overall. Warming my battery and cabin by preconditioning will cut my commute to 6% and cut the need to remote start. BUT it will use WAY more than 4 kWh. My 9 mile commute doesn’t need the extra range of a warm battery so for me it’s actually a money loser to precondition.

Ford recommends plugging in to precond. So range isn't compromised. We charge twice a month to 100pct and no it's under 30 deg we plug in everyday as recommended by ford to to precond.

 

[RickMachE]

Shayne - Thanks for the reply, but that TLC list from Ford does not address what I was asking.

Right above number 1... "we wanted to give you a few tips to maximize your range as winter sets in."

I was asking about any long-term battery benefits to preconditioning - or long-term detriments if you don't precondition.

The article you shared is talking about daily benefits of preconditioning - which is all well and good if you need to extend your daily range.

Correct. It specifically says to maximize range. Not a word about battery life.

 

[Shayne]

Ford recommends plugging in to precond. So range isn't compromised. We charge twice a month to 100pct and no it's under 30 deg we plug in everyday as recommended by ford to to precond.

I plug in and charge when the battery gets around 20% in the summer and have it set to charge to 85%. They say you should not charge it to 100% if it can be avoided and based on your schedule it appears setting a charging schedule up and charging it to 90% or something lower than 100% would work no problem. It should not sit at 100% if it can be avoided.

I also follow what they recommend and plug into L2 and stay plugged in when it is cold. I have seen it come on by itself and heat the pack when cold and plugged in. Becoming a daily event when below around -5C (20F) this winter. I just leave my schedule but lower it to 80% SOC. Therefore every trip I come home, plug in and it will charge the first night and my batteries almost never get down to 20% in the winter.

 

[the golden eel]

I would expect preconditioning to extend battery life in cold climates. Using regen when the battery is cold (below 32ºF) can damage the battery (lithium will be plated on the anode, permanently damaging it). Ford does not limit regen in cold temps nearly enough, so that is likely going to cause some battery damage if preconditioning isn't used.

If you live where it's really cold (Canada or Alaska) and don't use departure times, you should probably turn off 1PD and use Whisper in the winter to disable regen and minimize lithium plating.

Thanks for the reply.

Can you point me to any further reading on this?

Ford does not say one word (that I could find) that says preconditioning a cold battery will extend the life of the battery. But I do want to more fully understand why it would/would not have long term benefits - hence the reason I started this topic.

 

[Shayne]

Correct. It specifically says to maximize range. Not a word about battery life.

We should be a bit practical when it comes to heating it up a bit before we drive it in the winter. Common sense tells you when it gets cold.

What is the best soc range for battery health when it is cold and always plugged in? Bracket around 50% or something else? Lets say your normal commute consumes 15% in the summer and 30% in the winter. For that 30% in the winter what would be the best to setting in the charging schedule? 65% so it runs from 65 to 35% and averages 50% or something else? Or like heating them up before hitting the highway in -5F does not matter?

 

[RickMachE]

Nothing different in driving a gas vehicle in the winter. You don't stomp on it until it's warmed up.

I charge to 90% 365 days a year, leaving it plugged it at all times. 100% before a trip.

You can't take recommendations for extending range and say they apply to the life of the battery. Nothing says that.

 

[the golden eel]

We should be a bit practical when it comes to heating it up a bit before we drive it in the winter. Common sense tells you when it gets cold.

I completely agree. But doing something due to common sense isn't always correct - or necessary - which is why I started the topic.

Just hoping to learn something on my end.

 

[awp0]

I’m still stuck on the comments about regen braking in cold temps. Does anyone know if/how Ford manages this? Should we avoid 1PD in cold temps or can we trust that the MME does what’s best for the health of the battery and limits regen as needed? I’ve been driving in unbridled with 1PD on in 20-30F temps recently and haven’t noticed any decrease in regen braking power, but also haven’t paid very close attention.

 

[Shayne]

Nothing different in driving a gas vehicle in the winter. You don't stomp on it until it's warmed up.

I charge to 90% 365 days a year, leaving it plugged it at all times. 100% before a trip.

Just wondered if we are getting picky what the best for the batteries would be. 50% is recommended for long time storage that is why I picked it. If I remember right I think if you want it to update it has to be over a certain SOC anyway.

I completely agree. But doing something due to common sense isn't always correct - or necessary - which is why I started the topic.

Just hoping to learn something on my end.

I heat up and make sure everything I own is running and will not let me down when I am counting on it. Appears if it is not that cold where you live and you do not travel too far too fast it does not matter. Whatever you want is sounding like should work. Drive and treat at however you want it yours. The best drive will be had if you warm them up but if that is not for you I understand. Your question is do I need to. Answer here is it certainly will not hurt to. At -20F I want it to work.

 

[RickMachE]

I'd also add that there are a lot of "we always have done this" things that people do from years of past experience that aren't valid anymore due to changes in manufacturing, technology, etc. People change their oil at 500 miles because it's "break-in oil". Not any more. People change their oil at 3,000 miles because "it's dirty". No longer, follow the intelligent oil life monitor, it monitors usage. And so on.

One such thing is warming up a car. In the old days, it was recommend to warm up the car to operating temperature before driving. That has changed. Fuel injection, modern manufacturing of engines, and many other reasons.

For example, my 2013 F-150 manual says "Warm up your vehicle on cold mornings". However, that's on a list entitled "There are also some things you may NOT want to do because they may reduce your fuel economy". In other words, they're telling me NOT to warm up the vehicle.

In fact, there are 40 references to the word "cold", and not one of them tells me to warm up the vehicle. It does note that extended hot or cold operation is considered "severe" or "extreme" usage, which will get the Intelligent Oil Life Monitor to trip sooner.

I can remember sitting in a cold parking lot at college with my Datsun 280Z waiting for it to warm up. Took like 10 minutes.

Modern cars don't need to be warmed up. Simply avoid excessive engine revving until they are. I wait 20-30 seconds with my ICE vehicles.

Warming up is a great way to maintain engine health. You allow it to lubricate itself and, in turn, prolong its life cycle. However, modern vehicles no longer have carburetors, and lubrication takes 20-30 seconds. So, there is no real need to sit idle much beyond the time it takes to defog the windshield.

https://www.carfax.com/blog/do-you-need-to-warm-your-car-up#:~:text=Thanks to the way modern,in warm weather, too.)

https://www.consumerreports.org/cars-driving/should-you-warm-up-your-car-before-driving-a5580016349/

https://www.jdpower.com/cars/shopping-guides/do-you-need-to-warm-your-car-up

 

[Maquis]

I would expect preconditioning to extend battery life in cold climates. Using regen when the battery is cold (below 32ºF) can damage the battery (lithium will be plated on the anode, permanently damaging it). Ford does not limit regen in cold temps nearly enough, so that is likely going to cause some battery damage if preconditioning isn't used.

If you live where it's really cold (Canada or Alaska) and don't use departure times, you should probably turn off 1PD and use Whisper in the winter to disable regen and minimize lithium plating.

I am under the impression that simply keeping the car plugged in will keep the battery from getting dangerously cold. That’s why we get the “It’s cold outside, plug me in.” Message.
If that’s true, just being plugged in is as good or better than preconditioning.

I also didn’t think it was possible to completely disable regen?

 

[Blue highway]

It is good that the brake pedal does some regen also as I do not want to toggle 1PD off. I drive whisper 1PD 100% of the time and 99% of that time I never touch the brake pedal. Not coming to a red light, stop sign, traffic never unless not expected. I think it is the motors. Feels a bit like dropping a standard into a lower gear but a bit smoother (back pressure?). Mine comes to a stop and holds until I touch the accelerator again (hold not on). Pretty sure my whisper does regen but that is not why I like it. I will just keep trying to precondition it and leave 1PD on. I like no brake too much to give it up for months. Drive slow until the tires are round .

oooh forgot about the tire flat spots in the cold... that brings back memories ... brrr

 

[newmme]

I simply precondition so my car is warm when I get in. It is in a garage but it is still cold. I want to get into a warm car.

Good idea

 

[SuperRob]

The battery is warrantied for eight years. Not sure I much point in babying it even more than Ford already does, since it's in Ford's best interest to extend the battery life for you.

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