Are we in the Golden Age of electric cars

[Deleted member 9461]

Pilots,
Wanted to see everyone facts and opinions.
Are we in the time of EV's are becoming adopted, and you are glad to be part of the front line Mid 90's to now...early 2000's to now...or just NOW. Were the first few tries with the EV-1, the GEM, the Roadster a pre-trial that didn't stick...were you a possible early adopter of the LEAF/i-MiEV/Smart car...yet no where to charge...did you get a Tesla and then go, crap I'm 3000 miles from Graceland?

My feeling - we around the time when people were first taking cross country trips...on a horse, where's the road house??? The first part of the 1900' when the car started to come more prevalent, where do I get gas....

We have some luxury of the internet/apps/some maps even have chargers...and like a road house, the camp ground, the truck stop, neighbors house gave us a safe haven.
lets see the inputs.... besides rather your here than looking at the news and us being more (fill in feelings) at each other

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[SWO]

I joke with people that in 20yrs we will all ask why EVs were a good idea. Right now, everything is heavily subsidized and governments haven't completely figured out how to extract taxes from every possible avenue, but they will. I think infrastructure is going to be a huge problem, which is part of the reason I'm getting a GT (more range).

So yes, I think we are absolutely in a golden age for EVs.

 

[Mach1E]

I’ll be contrarian just for discussion purposes and say no.

I just think we aren’t there yet.

Electric cars have been around as long as…….. cars have been around.

And the issues they had 100 years ago (range, cost, charging) are still the same issues we have today.

They’ve gotten better certainly, but I believe the “golden era” is yet to come when they either solve the issues or at least make them “better” than gas cars.

The day that a BEV can do ALL of the following, will be the golden era:

1. perform better
2. Cost less
3. Longer range
4. Refuel faster
5. More reliable
6. Last Longer
7. Refuel cheaper

1 and 7 we’ve done. 2 is getting closer but still a ways to go. 3 getting closer. 4 is a huge gap. 5 and 6 are debatable.

 

[Pushrods&Capacitors]

We’re just now entering the Bronze Age from the Stone Age for EVs actually. Once we hit the Iron Age we’ll have made it. Give it another 10-20 yrs for the infrastructure to catch up.

 

[SWO]

We’re just now entering the Bronze Age from the Stone Age for EVs actually. Once we hit the Iron Age we’ll have made it. Give it another 10-20 yrs for the infrastructure to catch up.

I think the Bronze age is clearly defined as anything with CHAdeMO charging.

 

[MailGuy]

I’ll be contrarian just for discussion purposes and say no.

I just think we aren’t there yet.

Electric cars have been around as long as…….. cars have been around.

And the issues they had 100 years ago (range, cost, charging) are still the same issues we have today.

They’ve gotten better certainly, but I believe the “golden era” is yet to come when they either solve the issues or at least make them “better” than gas cars.

The day that a BEV can do ALL of the following, will be the golden era:

1. perform better
2. Cost less
3. Longer range
4. Refuel faster
5. More reliable
6. Last Longer
7. Refuel cheaper

1 and 7 we’ve done. 2 is getting closer but still a ways to go. 3 getting closer. 4 is a huge gap. 5 and 6 are debatable.

I agree with everything you said but 5 and 6. My experience has shown I have far fewer trips to the service department and the decrease in moving parts and serviceable consumables has been a welcome change. And I’m someone who just had a perfectly good 5 year old Li-ion battery swapped out on a Bolt (the only real “problem” in all those years).

 

[MacherAWD]

I’ll be contrarian just for discussion purposes and say no.

I just think we aren’t there yet.

Electric cars have been around as long as…….. cars have been around.

And the issues they had 100 years ago (range, cost, charging) are still the same issues we have today.

They’ve gotten better certainly, but I believe the “golden era” is yet to come when they either solve the issues or at least make them “better” than gas cars.

The day that a BEV can do ALL of the following, will be the golden era:

1. perform better
2. Cost less
3. Longer range
4. Refuel faster
5. More reliable
6. Last Longer
7. Refuel cheaper

1 and 7 we’ve done. 2 is getting closer but still a ways to go. 3 getting closer. 4 is a huge gap. 5 and 6 are debatable.

Reliability is hands down EV in 7 years of EV driving I have never had a service beyond a tire rotation, and 1 set of tires on my Leaf after 65k miles only because they were dry rotting. The reliability issues will be from all the fancy electronics which are now in ICE and EVs, I anticipate that is the stuff that will break, but the ICE vs EV specific components, EV is hands down more reliable.

 

[Doug&Julie]

I think you need to add a "we're not there yet" option on your poll, because...well...we're not there yet.

 

[Astro19]

Well, I actually think EV is a stop gap. At least how they are presented now. Eventually, solar or some other more efficient and cleaner option will arise. Dont think we are that far off, 30 years?

 

[Mach1E]

Reliability is hands down EV in 7 years of EV driving I have never had a service beyond a tire rotation, and 1 set of tires on my Leaf after 65k miles only because they were dry rotting. The reliability issues will be from all the fancy electronics which are now in ICE and EVs, I anticipate that is the stuff that will break, but the ICE vs EV specific components, EV is hands down more reliable.

I agree with everything you said but 5 and 6. My experience has shown I have far fewer trips to the service department and the decrease in moving parts and serviceable consumables has been a welcome change. And I’m someone who just had a perfectly good 5 year old Li-ion battery swapped out on a Bolt (the only real “problem” in all those years).

I said it was “debatable.”

But unfortunately your personal experience (like with anything) isn’t enough to draw conclusions for the product as a whole.

Reliability as whole on BEVs hasn’t been great compared to ICE. Tesla last year ranked 2nd to last, and they have the largest market share: https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/11/18...o-reliability-survey-how-tesla-evs-fared.html

And longevity? Jury is still out. If you have to replace a $20,000 battery in 10 years, the used cars will just be thrown away like Kleenex. We will know better how it turns out in another decade.

Again, debatable.

 

[TheVirtualTim]

4. (Time to refuel) Is a bit tricky and this is something I point out to people who ask about it.

With an ICE car, the ONLY way to refuel is to visit a service station and wait for it to refuel. You might be doing this by finding a station along the way without doing a detour -- but I don't know many people who own a gas pump in their own driveway. So it always involves some effort.

While you *can* (and on a road-trip you would) do this with an EV ... for everyday use, that's not what we do.

I arrive home. I plug in the car and walk inside to enjoy the rest of my day. I do not wait for the car. If it is raining outside, I do not stand in the rain while fueling. If it is 5°F outside, I do not stand in the cold while waiting for the car to "refuel".

I plug-in ... and ignore it.

I tell people who drive ICE cars that I spend less time refueling my car than they do --but my "time spent" is the time -> I <- have to invest. I don't count the time when I ignore the car and go enjoy doing whatever I want while the car takes care of itself. For ALL of my around-town needs, without a single exception, I NEVER stop to recharge ... ever. This is a claim that I can't make when driving my ICE car -- when the needle says I need fuel, I have to go find a station.

If we are road-tripping beyond the range of the battery ... then the tables are turned. But again ... not as badly as you might suspect. I *just* had this conversation with someone on Sunday. I have a friend who lives 285 miles away and just slightly over a 4 hour drive.

While the 285 miles is just barely beyond the range of the car ... it's not the range, but the time. I don't know about the rest of you, but I am not going to sit in a car for 4 hours without stopping for a break. At some point I'll want to use a bathroom and maybe get food or beverage along the way.

The last time I road-tripped with the car, I'd take advantage of the recharge stops to give myself a break and some food. And more than once the car was ready to go again *before* I was. By the time I ordered and got food ... and had time to eat it ... the car was ready to go again.

This was not always the case. On some stops I'd get back to the car -- having used a restroom and grabbed a drink or snack -- and the car still needed another 10 minutes before it was ready.

If the only thing you do is stop and wait with the car while it charges, then sure ... waiting 30-40 minutes for a charge takes longer than fueling. But since you don't have to wait with the car and can grab a break -- it's really not that long. I should point out that this is not true of an ICE vehicle. You are legally required to supervise the refueling process -- it is not legal to walk away while the car refuels (even though I fully know people do this.)

 

[Mach1E]

4. (Time to refuel) Is a bit tricky and this is something I point out to people who ask about it.

With an ICE car, the ONLY way to refuel is to visit a service station and wait for it to refuel. You might be doing this by finding a station along the way without doing a detour -- but I don't know many people who own a gas pump in their own driveway. So it always involves some effort.

While you *can* (and on a road-trip you would) do this with an EV ... for everyday use, that's not what we do.

I arrive home. I plug in the car and walk inside to enjoy the rest of my day. I do not wait for the car. If it is raining outside, I do not stand in the rain while fueling. If it is 5°F outside, I do not stand in the cold while waiting for the car to "refuel".

I plug-in ... and ignore it.

I tell people who drive ICE cars that I spend less time refueling my car than they do --but my "time spent" is the time -> I <- have to invest. I don't count the time when I ignore the car and go enjoy doing whatever I want while the car takes care of itself. For ALL of my around-town needs, without a single exception, I NEVER stop to recharge ... ever. This is a claim that I can't make when driving my ICE car -- when the needle says I need fuel, I have to go find a station.

If we are road-tripping beyond the range of the battery ... then the tables are turned. But again ... not as badly as you might suspect. I *just* had this conversation with someone on Sunday. I have a friend who lives 285 miles away and just slightly over a 4 hour drive.

While the 285 miles is just barely beyond the range of the car ... it's not the range, but the time. I don't know about the rest of you, but I am not going to sit in a car for 4 hours without stopping for a break. At some point I'll want to use a bathroom and maybe get food or beverage along the way.

The last time I road-tripped with the car, I'd take advantage of the recharge stops to give myself a break and some food. And more than once the car was ready to go again *before* I was. By the time I ordered and got food ... and had time to eat it ... the car was ready to go again.

This was not always the case. On some stops I'd get back to the car -- having used a restroom and grabbed a drink or snack -- and the car still needed another 10 minutes before it was ready.

If the only thing you do is stop and wait with the car while it charges, then sure ... waiting 30-40 minutes for a charge takes longer than fueling. But since you don't have to wait with the car and can grab a break -- it's really not that long. I should point out that this is not true of an ICE vehicle. You are legally required to supervise the refueling process -- it is not legal to walk away while the car refuels (even though I fully know people do this.)

All true, but it’s a still a compromise.

I look forward to the day that it’s equal or better. That’s the golden age!

For me, personally, the BEV is better, because I never plan on road tripping with it. Haven’t used a DC charger yet and hope I never have to.

But that doesn’t work for everyone.

 

[Deleted member 9461]

@TheVirtualTim I see a lot of agreements. One trip was really cold, was a 300 miler, ran the heat, walked the dog like 30 min in the rain--she's a rugged breed, and when it's dog time, weather isn't a concern, came back, had a few min to charge, warm car
lately, been capturing videos, so that's a few min to swap cards, batteries, make adjustments, go to the honey bucket, eat, you really get a good break on longer trips, those, stop 10 min for gas, and cannon ball wear you out.

 

[MailGuy]

I said it was “debatable.”

But unfortunately your personal experience (like with anything) isn’t enough to draw conclusions for the product as a whole.

Reliability as whole on BEVs hasn’t been great compared to ICE. Tesla last year ranked 2nd to last, and they have the largest market share: https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/11/18...o-reliability-survey-how-tesla-evs-fared.html

And longevity? Jury is still out. If you have to replace a $20,000 battery in 10 years, the used cars will just be thrown away like Kleenex. We will know better how it turns out in another decade.

Again, debatable.

Yes, I’m only one data point. Well, three actually since I own three EV’s, none of which start with T. I drove hybrids for 11 years before that. Electrified drive trains are just more reliable and require less maintenance. It’s the bells and whistles around them that are problematic as noted time and time again.

P.S. I actually am on your side on this discussion. The “Golden Age” is yet to come.

 

[Mach-Lee]

I think it depends where you live. If you live in California, then no, the golden era has passed. If you live in a "behind the times" area like me where you might see another EV in the parking lot once a month, then you're a pioneer. EVs from many manufacturers besides Tesla weren't available to buy here new until recently (they were always reserved for ZEV states). There is also very little infrastructure. If you can drive across northern Wisconsin with an EV you are a pioneer. Same goes for other "charging holes" throughout the USA.

So I think my answer reflects the infrastructure rather than the vehicle itself.

Some would argue the Golden Age of electric vehicles was the 1910's before gasoline engines took over. Electric cars have been around for 120+ years.

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