Battery Contactor Recall Software (22S41) Now Available at Dealers

[RWG]

It's good to know there is a fix, albeit just software. Does anyone know what the root cause of the issue was/is? i.e. how did software cause a heavy duty, DC voltage, hermetically sealed contactor to overheat?

I have concerns.

The end symptom, result of this problem is an overheated contactor but what I want to know is Why, How? My experience with over heated contractors in other applications are, many times their was collateral damage to the contactor, related to the times it was overheating. As a result, in some situations I have experienced, a compromised contactor would eventually fail prematurely as collateral/cumulative overheating episodes kept on occurring. So if we are lead to believe the fix is software, then it means there was a software problem that lead to overheating that took out some contactors over time. On one hand, software fix to correct a software problem seems perfectly logical and I can accept that but on the other hand are my contactors now compromised after 5,000 miles of operation? And therefore maybe going to fail prematurely sometime in the future, most likely after the warranty runs out?

Furthermore, if these contactors got hot enough to sometimes weld together, that means sometimes there maybe collateral damage to the wire connections and wires attached to the contactor. Theoretically, an overheated contactor can do lots of collateral damage to other components.

A software fix may cure the problem from happening again on a new contactor and new production. What about a contactor that has been in use for nearly 6 months? Software cannot undo mechanical contactor overheating collateral damage that has already occured. How can I tell if a contactor has been compromised? Especially since it is hermetically sealed and probably cannot be taken apart or inspected.

If there is any logic to my concerns, than I would expect Ford to extend the warranty on any future failure related to that part, beyond the traditional 36,000 miles or 3 years. Also, if compromised contactors are a contingent liability, perhaps they should just be replaced.

Opinion from a former corporate warranty manager: Why wouldn't Ford choose to do software AND to replace parts? Perhaps because a software warranty upgrade on 50,000 vehicles is relatively cheap, but replacing 100,000 contactors and software is not, ( I believe there are 2 contactors in every vehicle) especially since the problem appears to be Fords software and not the component. Therefore there is no warranty cost recovery opportunity for the failed part. As such, Ford would be left bearing the total cost of this warranty/recall campaign with no assistance from the contactor supplier.

Curious . . . .

 

[AKgrampy]

My automatic updates are now OFF

Just to be sure - turning off automatic updates prevents all automatic updates? Just wondering if Ford can force a safety update.

 

[AKgrampy]

All you people jumping to install this update might want to wait until we know more about how it will effect the car and let people try it out for a while. I'm not updating mine and might even turn off OTA.

I have a suspicion that we might hear about people's experiences with the new software very soon.

Your suspicion makes me suspicious so I will turn off my auto updates for now. I have always appreciated your insight so I will do a slow roll on this update. No issues with my car , no need for DCFC, and I drive like an old man anyways (guess that is OK cause I am an old man!)

 

[mkhuffman]

It's good to know there is a fix, albeit just software. Does anyone know what the root cause of the issue was/is? i.e. how did software cause a heavy duty, DC voltage, hermetically sealed contactor to overheat?

I have concerns.

The end symptom, result of this problem is an overheated contactor but what I want to know is Why, How? My experience with over heated contractors in other applications are, many times their was collateral damage to the contactor, related to the times it was overheating. As a result, in some situations I have experienced, a compromised contactor would eventually fail prematurely as collateral/cumulative overheating episodes kept on occurring. So if we are lead to believe the fix is software, then it means there was a software problem that lead to overheating that took out some contactors over time. On one hand, software fix to correct a software problem seems perfectly logical and I can accept that but on the other hand are my contactors now compromised after 5,000 miles of operation? And therefore maybe going to fail prematurely sometime in the future, most likely after the warranty runs out?

Furthermore, if these contactors got hot enough to sometimes weld together, that means sometimes there maybe collateral damage to the wire connections and wires attached to the contactor. Theoretically, an overheated contactor can do lots of collateral damage to other components.

A software fix may cure the problem from happening again on a new contactor and new production. What about a contactor that has been in use for nearly 6 months? Software cannot undo mechanical contactor overheating collateral damage that has already occured. How can I tell if a contactor has been compromised? Especially since it is hermetically sealed and probably cannot be taken apart or inspected.

If there is any logic to my concerns, than I would expect Ford to extend the warranty on any future failure related to that part, beyond the traditional 36,000 miles or 3 years. Also, if compromised contactors are a contingent liability, perhaps they should just be replaced.

Opinion from a former corporate warranty manager: Why wouldn't Ford choose to do software AND to replace parts? Perhaps because a software warranty upgrade on 50,000 vehicles is relatively cheap, but replacing 100,000 contactors and software is not, ( I believe there are 2 contactors in every vehicle) especially since the problem appears to be Fords software and not the component. Therefore there is no warranty cost recovery opportunity for the failed part. As such, Ford would be left bearing the total cost of this warranty/recall campaign with no assistance from the contactor supplier.

Curious . . . .

I think it is a big assumption to state the problem isn't the physical part because Ford updated the software.

You could be right, but I think the HVBJB is the problem and Ford is updating the software as a band aid, hoping to either catch the problem before the car is undrivable, or reduce the chance it can happen. But I seriously doubt the software change eliminates the possibility of failure, it just reduces it - maybe. Maybe!

 

[Cjpayne]

Unless I have missed it I have not seen any data published for charging curve or Dragy slips after the software update? GT's specifically.

 

[DevSecOps]

Unless I have missed it I have not seen any data published for charging curve or Dragy slips after the software update? GT's specifically.

I was talking to someone earlier who is going to do some 0-90 tests soon. I don't think the issue is power reduction under "healthy" HVBJB conditions. I think the issue most people will have with this is that it isn't a true fix. You can still brick a HVBJB even after the software.

 

[phil]

I was talking to someone earlier who is going to do some 0-90 tests soon. I don't think the issue is power reduction under "healthy" HVBJB conditions. I think the issue most people will have with this is that it isn't a true fix. You can still brick a HVBJB even after the software.

So, more a stalling tactic than a solution?

 

[fordowner2022]

Is anyone else having an issue with their dealer saying they don't have the fix available? We are in the unfortunate position of our car being delivered during this window, and our dealer is telling us they are still waiting on a part. They're reading the bulletin, but they are not interpreting it as the resolution.

I've repeatedly told them that the fix is a software issue that doesn't require a part, and I'm getting nowhere. It's really frustrating to know that we should have our car by now.

 

[DevSecOps]

So, more a stalling tactic than a solution?

To each their own... I, for one, am not sold on this being a very well thought out and orchestrated recall. I've said for over a month that it's just mitigation (not a fix) and it's not the right thing. Ford should be replacing the HVBJB's IMO.

 

[Neil4Real]

I was talking to someone earlier who is going to do some 0-90 tests soon. I don't think the issue is power reduction under "healthy" HVBJB conditions. I think the issue most people will have with this is that it isn't a true fix. You can still brick a HVBJB even after the software.

Do you think it’ll at least prevent the bricking and warn you before so you can limp to a dealer rather than have a fully dead/stranded car?

 

[DevSecOps]

Do you think it’ll at least prevent the bricking and warn you before so you can limp to a dealer rather than have a fully dead/stranded car?

Yes. But when that happens on a 75mph freeway in the middle of no where that, to me, isn't acceptable. I would rather it die when I stop, personally.

 

[billy_at]

im waiting to see what it does to DCFC before updating

Have not noticed any difference.

 

[breeves002]

To each their own... I, for one, am not sold on this being a very well thought out and orchestrated recall. I've said for over a month that it's just mitigation (not a fix) and it's not the right thing. Ford should be replacing the HVBJB's IMO.

While you're right I think it makes sense for them to do it this way. It's less expensive if it works and gives them time to produce new hardware. If they learn more and find out the software fix isn't working and they need to fully recall the HVBJBs they can then do it when the parts are near or at availability.

 

[phil]

While you're right I think it makes sense for them to do it this way. It's less expensive if it works and gives them time to produce new hardware. If they learn more and find out the software fix isn't working and they need to fully recall the HVBJBs they can then do it when the parts are near or at availability.

So, a stalling tactic!

 

[yngwenli]

This may sound silly but.... I trust myself far more than I do a dealer. I'm using the exact same tools and following the exact same service procedures. While FDRS can be finicky, if the software doesn't install properly I've generally found it to fail gracefully, not brick the entire car. And you just reset and try again. At the end of the day, the question I ask myself is "can I push a mouse button and follow step by step instructions as good as the tech that'll be asked to do this at the dealer?"

Second, I'm a nerd! To me this is no different than installing a software update on my home built PC. Can it go wrong, yes. Do I trust myself more than GeekSquad to do it? Also yes.

Third, and not pictured in my post, is the kegerator off to the right of my computer rig in the garage. Tinkering with the car while enjoying a fresh brew brings back memories of helping my dad tear apart entire engines to replace head gaskets, timing chains, etc as a kid. For him, he did it to be frugal as opposed to for fun. But fundamentally I was raised learning how to do these things myself, and how to enjoy it while doing so.

Not everyone has that appetite, and for them there's the dealer network as well as the upcoming OTA.

Everything you state and a lot of times, if you own the device/car/item to fix/etc, you simply care more to do it right. No cutting corners or if something didn't fit/work good, just ignore it that a random dealer/contractor/etc would do.

You of course, have to know what you're doing, but I think a lot of folks here know as much/more than some of the techs (not all of course), but if you follow the guide/procedures like you say, they don't know anymore than you generally.

I'm sure a lot of us do this in our own lives with household maintenance/repairs, computer fixing, yard work, electrical stuff, etc...

I sorta look at a lot of things as not particularly complex (not like we're engineering the solution), we're just following some operating procedure.

Like someone else mentioned, I'm not doing this myself neither because the tools are expensive.
I can't say I'm into car programming so have purchased/owned nothing for any past cars. Sometimes, you hire "some professional" more because they have all the tools already that you'd have to buy if you did it yourself.

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