Battery Health Recs from Ford

BMT1071

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I am not aware of any other than a 12V fix? Please elaborate. All I have seen is the app start to display it is sleep and/or deep sleeping (hibernating). As noted that is not a comforting message and my PC do not hibernate when plugged in to only 120V. There are settings for that.
I guess I can't confirm the updates were released but SSM 49603 and SSM 49795 were to address deep sleep and charging issues. We also don't really know what was contained in any of the OTA updates. ??

 

Shayne

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I guess I can't confirm the updates were released but SSM 49603 and SSM 49795 were to address deep sleep and charging issues. We also don't really know what was contained in any of the OTA updates. ??
All good @SnBGC gave you the info you were looking for. See above.
 

SnBGC

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I am not aware of any other than a 12V fix? Please elaborate. All I have seen is the app start to display it is sleep and/or deep sleeping (hibernating). As noted that is not a comforting message and my PC do not hibernate when plugged in to only 120V. There are settings for that.
If it helps any.....
I can wake the car remotely by operating the door locks from FordPass.
 

SnBGC

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113 is when there is going to be a problem therefore 113/70 = 1.6 normally a safety factor of 1.5 (75) is reasonable. It has all the power it needs so that should not be a problem. Not coming on until 104 is a bit ridiculous. No engineer I know would use a limit like that.
There is a cooling diagram in the WSM that indicates the radiator and chiller is trying to cool the battery to 104 F or lower. I can try and find it and verify that was the figure.

I have seen 39 C on the BECM calculation for battery temp and the car didn't cool the battery while parked on plug and the @macchiaz-o work around in place. So maybe that is right about the threshold where the cooling will be activated? I haven't really had very much time to nail down the temps to see when it goes on and turns off.

I have heard the pumps running at lower temps but not consistently so I am a bit confused how/when the car would just circulate fluid without running the fan or chiller. Seems a bit strange. My Focus Electric was much easier to figure out because you can see everything once you open the hood. All that stuff is hidden in the Mach-E so a bit harder to observe what is happening (or not happening).
 

Shayne

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If it helps any.....
I can wake the car remotely by operating the door locks from FordPass.
Yes morning ritual here open trunk, close trunk, refresh app vehicle page, refresh app home page. It is alive.

Thankfully I now have a functional charging schedule as your trick would not have worked for me until recently.

Is this correct?

1) Charge it to 80% (random)
2) Set schedule to charge to 70% (below 80%)
3) Plug it in

At that point it maintains itself with no interaction? Or do you have to continuously keep waking it up by some version of a trunk opening or door locks?

Intervention and waking it up all the time is really a stressful no starter and not much of a trick. I would say if you need to do that you need I new trick. I would have no problem leaving it on and locking the doors and see how that works. The thing is under warranty and it appears there is probable cause to do so. It would give you a better feel when and what it does when it does not go into some sort of deep sleep.

I would guess at about 75F the vehicle should be initiating some form of cooling. Standard engineering practice. 113/104 = 1.09 that is not a comfortable safety factor for any reasonable engineer. Starting to wonder if they parked it in a heated garage every night when they did the smithers testing? Built for Jays garage ;) . It is not like there is only a laptop battery in there or it is not plugged in. 5% a day to maintain itself is like 50 cents a day and I am good with that. Plugged in or not.

Drive, charge and maintain that is all it needs to do for me. Carplay and paak are kiddy stuff but fun. Tic tac toe? I will take maintained please.

Not even a PM me that is not how the vehicle should behave? Wild.
 


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Yes morning ritual here open trunk, close trunk, refresh app vehicle page, refresh app home page. It is alive.

Thankfully I now have a functional charging schedule as your trick would not have worked for me until recently.

Is this correct?

1) Charge it to 80% (random)
2) Set schedule to charge to 70% (below 80%)
3) Plug it in

At that point it maintains itself with no interaction? Or do you have to continuously keep waking it up by some version of a trunk opening or door locks?

Intervention and waking it up all the time is really a stressful no starter and not much of a trick. I would say if you need to do that you need I new trick. I would have no problem leaving it on and locking the doors and see how that works. The thing is under warranty and it appears there is probable cause to do so. It would give you a better feel when and what it does when it does not go into some sort of deep sleep.

I would guess at about 75F the vehicle should be initiating some form of cooling. Standard engineering practice. 113/104 = 1.09 that is not a comfortable safety factor for any reasonable engineer. Starting to wonder if they parked it in a heated garage every night when they did the smithers testing? Built for Jays garage ;) . It is not like there is only a laptop battery in there or it is not plugged in. 5% a day to maintain itself is like 50 cents a day and I am good with that. Plugged in or not.

Drive, charge and maintain that is all it needs to do for me. Carplay and paak are kiddy stuff but fun. Tic tac toe? I will take maintained please.

Not even a PM me that is not how the vehicle should behave? Wild.
You keep talking about ratios of temperatures as a safety factor. That’s totally not valid, at least when using a temp scale other than Kelvin.
 

Shayne

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You keep talking about ratios of temperatures as a safety factor. That’s totally not valid, at least when using a temp scale other than Kelvin.
Kelvin Fahrenheit Celsius are all just different units for the same number. I can work metric and/or British (SI) and come up with the same safety factor and answer? All it takes is conversions and is completely independent. Are you saying when you define that safety factor you should be working in Kelvin?

It may make a lot of sense to come on early and maintain that then come of at 104 and bring it down to mid 70's with a roar of thunder? I think the point he is making is he is not sure at this point if it comes on at all or what it does. I Think an understand of that would be good to know?
 

SnBGC

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Yes morning ritual here open trunk, close trunk, refresh app vehicle page, refresh app home page. It is alive.

Thankfully I now have a functional charging schedule as your trick would not have worked for me until recently.

Is this correct?

1) Charge it to 80% (random)
2) Set schedule to charge to 70% (below 80%)
3) Plug it in

At that point it maintains itself with no interaction? Or do you have to continuously keep waking it up by some version of a trunk opening or door locks?
It had been a moving target unfortunately. Things might change for the better or worse with each OTA.

It appears the vehicle must be set to charge anytime or be inside the charge schedule for the battery cooling routine to activate.

The "trick" about lowering the SOC to something below actual existing charge level is because we don't want our cars charging during the day. Charging unnecessarily in 115 F during the day is pouring fuel on the fire (so to speak). Plus, many of us here are likely to be on a time of use plan where we are charged 28 cents per kWh during the day vs 6 cents overnight.

In your case, you are concerned about freezing temps so charging would actually add heat to the battery and that is a good thing. I presume you don't have any time of use issues with your energy provider?

You can set your car to charge during the coldest part of the night and that might work fine for you. My car wakes up to charge at the moment so if yours does the same and a future OTA doesn't change that, then you might be okay.

At the moment, I have to wake up my car for the battery cooling to activate and for the departure times to function. If I am driving and the car wants to cool the battery as soon as I park, then I just need to make sure the schedule is wide open and it will cool as soon as I plug in.

If the car doesn't cool the battery right away.....I try and walk by it 10-15 minutes later and then it is heat soaked enough and the cooling routine usually starts. Not always. About half the time it seems. Depends on the temps I guess.
 

Maquis

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Kelvin Fahrenheit Celsius are all just different units for the same number. I can work metric and/or British (SI) and come up with the same safety factor and answer? All it takes is conversions and is completely independent. Are you saying when you define that safety factor you should be working in Kelvin?

It may make a lot of sense to come on early and maintain that then come of at 104 and bring it down to mid 70's with a roar of thunder? I think the point he is making is he is not sure at this point if it comes on at all or what it does. I Think an understand of that would be good to know?
They are not different units for the same number - that's only true if the base of zero is equal (in this case, they are not).
You will get wildly different percentages when you use different units - that's why it's not a valid metric.
Consider 90F to 104F --- that's about a 15.6% difference (or margin as you call it).
In C, those numbers become 32.2 & 40 and the difference is 24.1%.

I understand your point about battery temperature management, that's all well & good. I'm only saying that applying a percentage to temperature differences is arbitrary. It reminds me of a question asked by my 8th grade science teacher: "The low temperature last night was 30F. Tonight, it's going to be twice as cold. What will tonight's low temperature be?" :D Most of the class replied 15F which he explained is wrong!

I only mentioned Kelvin because it's an absolute scale - 0 is total absence of heat, so a percentage change would correspond to a true percentage level change in heat content. But even that isn't really useful.
 

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I would guess at about 75F the vehicle should be initiating some form of cooling. Standard engineering practice. 113/104 = 1.09 that is not a comfortable safety factor for any reasonable engineer.
Stop talking about safety factor in regards to temperature, that's just silly. It's not a chain that will catastrophically fail at x load, so you can't apply the chain logic to temp. It's a gradual increase in degradation with increasing temp rather than a breaking point. For lithium, 40ºC/104ºF is generally regarded as the max safe working temp, and 60ºC/140ºF is regarded as the max safe storage temp. If the temp goes over 104ºF while sitting, it's not a concern if the battery is not being used. Cooling will try to bring it back down to 104ºF before charging, but if it's a couple degrees over it's not the end of the world.

Also, as pointed out you need to use the Rankine or Kelvin scale if you are talking about proportional temperatures since thermal motion is proportional to temp above absolute zero. Any engineer knows you have to use ºR or K in most equations (unless it's a ∆T) because of this.
 

Shayne

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They are not different units for the same number - that's only true if the base of zero is equal (in this case, they are not).
You will get wildly different percentages when you use different units - that's why it's not a valid metric.
Consider 90F to 104F --- that's about a 15.6% difference (or margin as you call it).
In C, those numbers become 32.2 & 40 and the difference is 24.1%.

I understand your point about battery temperature management, that's all well & good. I'm only saying that applying a percentage to temperature differences is arbitrary. It reminds me of a question asked by my 8th grade science teacher: "The low temperature last night was 30F. Tonight, it's going to be twice as cold. What will tonight's low temperature be?" :D Most of the class replied 15F which he explained is wrong!

I only mentioned Kelvin because it's an absolute scale - 0 is total absence of heat, so a percentage change would correspond to a true percentage level change in heat content. But even that isn't really useful.
What I am saying is I was talking about safety factors and not temperature and or percentages. A safety factor can be how soon you wash your socks before you need them (4 day safety factor) and is not even in the equation of what temperature units anyone is talking about. No body talks about Kelvin since as you say its scale is absolute zero and does not come up too often in real life conditions. Most things on this earth are designed with units that apply to them. There are conversions to get from Kelvin Fahrenheit Celsius and has nothing to do with me saying I would assume it would coming on with a factor of safety of say 1.5 when talking Fahrenheit. 45C/1.5 = 30C 113/1.5 = 75F is this what you are driving at one is 75 and one is 85F? Not doing Kelvin as that makes little sense. A safety factor is something chosen in the design or stipulated in codes. All I was saying is a safety factor of 1.09 and the conversation was in Fahrenheit makes little sense. Is the number 1.5 set in stone no but is 1.09 ridiculous for me yes and not normal.
 

SnBGC

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Made some additionL observations today because I happened to be outside helping my son with an upgrade project on his Rubicon.

We returned from brunch and plugged in but it didn't need any cooling apparently. About 30 minutes later it started cooling the battery. I am sure the car was awake because my phone and fob were nearby the entire time.

My son borrowed the Mach-E to run his girlfriend home and when he returned the car asked to be plugged in so we set the charge limit to 50% so it would cool without charging and that is what happened. A/C chiller fans and pumps.

Later around 7 pm as we were cleaning up, the car started cooling itself again but this time it was much quieter. I think it might have been just the fans and pumps (no chiller). Not sure though.

At any rate. Interesting about the different levels of cooling today. Also makes me wonder if leaving the fob near the car will keep it awake continuously?
 

BMT1071

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A couple of weird things happened today. Not sure if they are related to each other, or to the battery. I had a rogue charging event when I came home around noon today. My schedule is from 10 pm to 8 am. This is only the second time the car has ever charged outside of the schedule. NBD I thought. Drove the car to dinner around 5 with no issue. Came out to drive home about an hour later and got a Service Vehicle Soon message. Cleared it with the OK button and drive home without issue, but the wrench icon was illuminated the whole time. Cycled the ignition when I got home and it was like nothing had happened. ??
One other thing. The car was unplugged while preconditioning prior to going to dinner. My son unplugged it so I'm not sure if he pushed the button prior to disconnecting. I always do.

Screenshot_20210829-183121_FordPass.jpg
 

Shayne

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Made some additionL observations today because I happened to be outside helping my son with an upgrade project on his Rubicon.

We returned from brunch and plugged in but it didn't need any cooling apparently. About 30 minutes later it started cooling the battery. I am sure the car was awake because my phone and fob were nearby the entire time.

My son borrowed the Mach-E to run his girlfriend home and when he returned the car asked to be plugged in so we set the charge limit to 50% so it would cool without charging and that is what happened. A/C chiller fans and pumps.

Later around 7 pm as we were cleaning up, the car started cooling itself again but this time it was much quieter. I think it might have been just the fans and pumps (no chiller). Not sure though.

At any rate. Interesting about the different levels of cooling today. Also makes me wonder if leaving the fob near the car will keep it awake continuously?
It has different rates which is good and to be expected. If it came on at 80F and not 104F it should not have to work so hard and hence no jet engines? Back to those safety factors that non-engineers have no idea are incorporated into every engineered design. 104F makes no engineering sense and therefore I have a hard time believing it or if anything is programed in at this point. More like sleeping/hibernating and doing nothing from what I have noted. Which is fine under normal conditions but obviously not during extreme as you have appeared to have discovered.

If you read the new message that appeared a few months back in FP about it is sleeping it does note that in the future it may not?

I know when you walk by with phone or fob (or in the area) it does click and may wake up. The fob is more a for sure right now. Hoping the babysitting of your vehicle gets less so you can spend more time thinking about and doing other more important things such as with your son. Know when I was trying to keep it from charging to 100% every time I plugged in that constant interaction can start to wear on you.

Looking forward to the day when you post that you see this fixed.

 

 
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