Mirak

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the thing is he's not really taking into account charging curve as part of the design. The eTron by all accounts has a more generous charging curve, but if you are able to charge to 80% more frequently then what happens 80%-100% doesn't really matter.
Time is time. Doesn't really matter that Ford has deliberately capped fast charging at 80% - the end result is that the MME can't charge as much as fast. 80% seems awfully conservative given that the batteries already have a built-in buffer. The "solution" of making more frequent stops to charge isn't a solution - it makes road tripping in an EV a bigger pain than it already is.





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GoGoGadgetMachE

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Time is time. Doesn't really matter that Ford has deliberately capped fast charging at 80% - the end result is that the MME can't charge as much as fast. 80% seems awfully conservative given that the batteries already have a built-in buffer. The "solution" of making more frequent stops to charge isn't a solution - it makes road tripping in an EV a bigger pain than it already is.
again that's not necessarily true. If you can do all your charging in the "sweet spot" for the Mach-E then it's a question of the max charge rate only within that window. More frequent stops at close-to-route chargers isn't a "bigger pain" than less frequent stops at harder-to-reach chargers, especially if you're someone that for example finds going for three hours without stopping at all problematic as a driver.

saying it's black and white just isn't accurate.
 

Mirak

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again that's not necessarily true. If you can do all your charging in the "sweet spot" for the Mach-E then it's a question of the max charge rate only within that window. More frequent stops at close-to-route chargers isn't a "bigger pain" than less frequent stops at harder-to-reach chargers
Could you theoretically save time making more frequent stops if the chargers were optimally located? Sure. Is that reality? No.

Don’t you find it a bit odd/telling that we’re even having this conversation? ICE owners don’t have to talk this way. I’m a big EV fan but I’m also a realist.

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GoGoGadgetMachE

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Could you theoretically save time making more frequent stops if the chargers were optimally located? Sure. Is that reality? No.

Don’t you find it a bit odd/telling that we’re even having this conversation? ICE owners don’t have to talk this way. I’m a big EV fan but I’m also a realist.
nobody's arguing - well, ok, I'm not at least - that BEVs are less convenient than ICE in a multiple ways in 2021.

All I'm saying is that "well this car has a different charging curve from 80%-100% so it's clearly better" doesn't completely track for all drivers in all cases.
 

OttawaGuy

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etron has much better charging speed, this is really matter on road trip.
For now.. Let's wait and see if Ford makes charging faster...

And it also depends on your needs, more road trips or city driving

And there's the etron price versus the MME
 

BlueMach

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He is always charging in these test to 100% even if the manual says not to...not very usefull...that's why i prefer his 1000km tests, than he isn't doing this and only trying to do the 1000km as fast as possible within reasonable speedlimits....
On the contrary, I think it highlights how ridiculous the statement in the manual is. If we're not supposed to charge to 100%, don't tell me I have a 270 mile EV, tell me I have a 216 mile EV.

There's nothing OK with how Ford is throttling our charging.
 

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On the contrary, I think it highlights how ridiculous the statement in the manual is. If we're not supposed to charge to 100%, don't tell me I have a 270 mile EV, tell me I have a 216 mile EV.

There's nothing OK with how Ford is throttling our charging.
I would prefer that the charging not be throttled, either, or at least not until 90%. But I think it's fair for Ford to provide range from 100%. Most people can easily get back to 100% overnight. I think Ford has explained many times that its fast charging estimates are from "[can't remember the low end] to 80%."
 

BlueMach

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I would prefer that the charging not be throttled, either, or at least not until 90%. But I think it's fair for Ford to provide range from 100%. Most people can easily get back to 100% overnight. I think Ford has explained many times that its fast charging estimates are from "[can't remember the low end] to 80%."
The issue is I don't need 100% range when I'm at home and have the time. We need 100% range when on the road away from home.

They explained their estimates are to 80%, but never explained that it *DOES NOT* DCFC above 80%, it reverts to AC speeds at 10.5 kW max until after the owners manual came out.
 

ajmartineau

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Charging from the live stream
In xx minutes it charged xx kWh
0- 0 @9%
5– 9. @20%
10– 18.5 @30%
15– 27 @40%
20– 34.5 @49%
25– 41 @56%
30– 47.5 @63%
35– 54.5 @71%
40- 60.5 @78%
9-80% in ~41 minutes

It only hit 142kW and throttled after 3 minutes.
 

silverelan

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Charging from the live stream
In xx minutes it charged xx kWh
0- 0 @9%
5– 9. @20%
10– 18.5 @30%
15– 27 @40%
20– 34.5 @49%
25– 41 @56%
30– 47.5 @63%
35– 54.5 @71%
40- 60.5 @78%
9-80% in ~41 minutes

It only hit 142kW and throttled after 3 minutes.
Bjorn also says he thinks Ford is hiding another 3-4 kWh. He estimates the usable battery size is actually 84-85kWh, not 88kWh out of 98.8kWh total capacity. So basically, 7-12 miles of range is squirreled away.

If the Mach-E is actually 84kWh usable, then that means Ford is withholding a whopping 14kWh or 15% of the pack for reasons.
 

Dan G

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On the contrary, I think it highlights how ridiculous the statement in the manual is. If we're not supposed to charge to 100%, don't tell me I have a 270 mile EV, tell me I have a 216 mile EV.

There's nothing OK with how Ford is throttling our charging.
Okay, I think this statement is ridiculous. No EV recommends charging to 100%. None. Why are you holding the Mach-E to a higher standard? My current EV won't even let you charge to 100%. It stops at 94%.

I'm honestly okay with slowing down at 80%. Will there be times you need more than 80%? Maybe. I honestly doubt it. Yes, there's holes in the network. I think that means you just don't go there, not charge to 100% and hope for the best. I'd rather Ford limit speeds above 80% than take the Tesla approach. Tesla throttles above 80% as well, but not as much. Model S and Xs are having an issue now where 2018 and earlier models (no reason to think this won't happen to the 2019 and 2020 models as well in the coming year or two) are being limited to less than 100kW (I think it's around 80kW) for their entire charging session. Tesla says this is to protect the battery.
 
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stroszek

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I kind of doubt Ford is "hiding" 4 kwh when 88 usable kwh is all over their marketing. I'm not a lawyer but that would be a pretty clear case of false advertising I would think.
 

ajmartineau

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Okay, I think this statement is ridiculous. No EV recommends charging to 100%. None. Why are you holding the Mach-E to a higher standard? My current EV won't even let you charge to 100%. It stops at 94%.

I'm honestly okay with slowing down at 80%. Will there be times you need more than 80%? Maybe. I honestly doubt it. Yes, there's holes in the network. I think that means you just don't go there, not charge to 100% and hope for the best. I'd rather Ford limit speeds above 80% than take the Tesla approach. Tesla throttles above 80% as well, but not as much. Model S and Xs are having an issue now where 2018 and earlier models (no reason to think this won't happen to the 2019 and 2020 models as well in the coming year or two) are being limited to less than 100kW (I think it's around 80kW) for their entire charging session. Tesla says this is to protect the battery.
I agree except they already put aside 10kWh. So for me, the "80%" cliff should be at our ~90%. They have already stated that charging is at the top of the list. ...but when? I'm guessing a couple of months.

The video showed that Ford has given us a charge from 10-80% 5 minutes faster than they promised. ... in the cold.
 

ajmartineau

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Remember that was a preproduction car with 10k km on it. It's probably not calibrated correctly and has some degradation.
If I was Ford, I would set those press cars with extra at the bottom so they don't run out.
Bjorn did not go to zero percent. He estimated the 83kWh from using most of the battery.
 

Dan G

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I agree except they already put aside 10kWh. So for me, the "80%" cliff should be at our ~90%. They have already stated that charging is at the top of the list. ...but when? I'm guessing a couple of months.

The video showed that Ford has given us a charge from 10-80% 5 minutes faster than they promised. ... in the cold.
This is the argument I'm all for. Make is taper at 90ish%. My hope, and it is a hope, is that Ford will adjust once they have a bunch of real world information at their fingertips. It might take 6-12 months. Once they get some good information about how their batteries are doing in the real world. I can hope.
 

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