Res Nullius

Well-Known Member
First Name
Evan
Joined
Oct 6, 2019
Messages
56
Reaction score
60
Location
Thousand Oaks
First Name
Evan
Vehicles
e-Golf, X3
Country flag
Mach-E gets some props from BMW...


https://www.autonews.com/sales/finicky-american-demand-changes-path-bmws-crossover-ev

Finicky American demand changes path for BMW's crossover EV

BMW has iced plans to bring its first electric crossover to the U.S. for now. The BMW iX3 was scheduled to arrive in the first half of 2021.

"At this time we do not have plans to bring the iX3 to the U.S. market," a spokesman confirmed to Automotive News, declining to elaborate on the reasons for the decision.

BMW, like its German rival Mercedes-Benz, is grappling with the realization that the world's second-largest auto market remains half-hearted in its embrace of electric vehicles. Despite their proclamations of interest in battery-powered vehicles, few automakers other than Tesla have made much traction in the U.S. market with EVs.

Complicating their calculations, regulatory pressures in Europe and China are creating urgent need for EVs in those markets. Automakers face hefty fines in Europe next year if they fail to cut their fleet CO2 emissions to an average 95 grams per kilometer.

As a result, the German automakers are recalibrating their EV ambitions in the U.S. — diverting production supply to markets that are more receptive to the new technology, and biding their time for America's interest to kindle.

In December, Mercedes-Benz told dealers it would delay the U.S. launch of its EQC electric crossover by at least a year, pushing it to 2021. Mercedes pinned the decision on strong demand for the EQC in Europe.

"We had to make a little bit of a tough choice," Daimler CEO Ola Källenius told reporters in January at CES in Las Vegas. "Demand [from Europe] by far outstrips supply, even though we are ramping up and adding additional battery lines to the production."

Limited range

In late January, BMW informed dealers at a meeting in Boca Raton, Fla., of its decision to not introduce the iX3 in the United States next year.

The crossover is an electric version of the brand's best-selling vehicle, the X3. BMW sold 70,110 X3s in the U.S. last year, up 14 percent from 2018. With the iX3, the X3 will become BMW's first model available with a conventional combustion engine, a plug-in hybrid or a pure electric system.

But the planned EV was shaping up to be an underperformer in the U.S. An EPA estimate of the iX3's driving range has not been disclosed. Unless the vehicle has a range of at least 300 miles, "it's not worth bringing to the table," said one retailer who asked not to be identified.

That is not a given with the new product.

Manufactured in China, the iX3 is powered by a 74-kWh lithium ion battery. That is smaller than the beefier batteries in luxury electric crossovers currently on U.S. roads. The Jaguar i-Pace crossover, for instance, has an EPA range of 234 miles per charge, and it uses a larger 90-kWh battery. The Audi e-tron carries a 95-kWh battery that manages to eke out only 204 miles. Both of those models are selling slowly in the U.S.

The BMW iX3 isn't going to cut it in the U.S. market, said Sam Abuelsamid, principal analyst at Navigant Research.

"To be competitive, you really want to have closer to at least 240 to 250 miles of EPA range," Abuelsamid said. "Anything less than that and I think you're going to be struggling in the marketplace."

Competitive?

Another U.S. challenge for the iX3 is that BMW planned to launch it only with rear-wheel drive, limiting its appeal to American crossover buyers seeking the flexibility of all-while drive.

The BMW iX3 is tailored for the China market, where extended range is not a customer priority, said Sam Fiorani, vice president at AutoForecast Solutions.

"Why push a vehicle with limited appeal into North America only to come up short next to a Tesla Model Y or Ford Mustang Mach-E?" Fiorani said. He believes BMW will have a more competitive chance for a U.S. iX3 when the automaker develops the next-generation X3 platform.

"With better batteries and all-wheel drive, the next generation would make a proper entry into this very competitive segment," Fiorani said.

The BMW iX3, made by joint venture BMW Brilliance Automotive in Shenyang, China, features the fifth generation of BMW's eDrive technology, with the drive unit combining the electric motor, system electronics and transmission into a central housing, reducing its weight and footprint.

The iX3 is part of BMW's ambitious target to have 25 electrified models on the road by 2023. And despite its reversal on the iX3, the Bavarian automaker is sticking to a plan to bring two EVs to the U.S. in the next couple of years.

First is the iNext crossover, which goes into production in the middle of 2021. That will be followed by the i4 sedan, which begins production toward the end of 2021. The i4 and iNext have a range of more than 370 miles, compared with the iX3's 273-mile range, based on the European emissions test cycle.

"With the two longer-range models coming, we don't need the limited range, rear-wheel drive iX3 right now," another dealer said.
 

HopefulAl

Active Member
First Name
Al
Joined
Mar 29, 2020
Messages
25
Reaction score
20
Location
Northern California
First Name
Al
Vehicles
Volvo XC60 T8 PHEV, x-Tesla S owner
Occupation
Retired
Country flag
Thanks for posting this. I agree with their decision. If you want to sell any volume of EVs, then you must be able to offer longer range vehicles for the customers that need them. Otherwise you are not going to get the volume. Ford has a good mix of ranges available. My last EV had 230 Miles of range. I need more than that and have a 300 mile Mach-E on order.
 

Newbie

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2020
Messages
55
Reaction score
36
Location
USA
Vehicles
Chevy Volt, BMW i3
Country flag
"Despite their proclamations of interest in battery-powered vehicles, few automakers other than Tesla have made much traction in the U.S. market with EVs."

They mentioned more than Ford.
 

Nikos

Active Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2019
Messages
26
Reaction score
23
Location
Taylors SC
Vehicles
2012 Explorer Limited, 2013 Fusion Hybrid Platinum, 2017 Mustang GT Premium and a Reserved Mach E AWD Extended Range Premium.
Occupation
Aircraft Mechanic
Country flag
Hard to believe BMW quoted Mach E as the reason of not bringing IX3 to North America.
If you park an IX3 next to a Mach E, you see the clear winner.
BMW has made in the past disparaging statements against Tesla's model X and S.
I guess reality is catching up with them.
I am ready for my Mach E Mustang. The email will come soon enough.
Good job Ford.
 

MNAce

Active Member
First Name
Phil
Joined
Jan 11, 2020
Messages
28
Reaction score
33
Location
St Paul, MN
First Name
Phil
Vehicles
Ford Fusion
Country flag
Thanks for posting this. I agree with their decision. If you want to sell any volume of EVs, then you must be able to offer longer range vehicles for the customers that need them. Otherwise you are not going to get the volume. Ford has a good mix of ranges available. My last EV had 230 Miles of range. I need more than that and have a 300 mile Mach-E on order.
Can you expand a bit on your experience, please? How often or how painfully did owning/operating a daily driver EV with ~230 mile range prove problematic for you?
 

dbsb3233

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tim
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
1,123
Reaction score
812
Location
Colorado, USA
First Name
Tim
Vehicles
2013 Ford Escape
Occupation
Retired
Country flag
Looks like that article was from March 9. What's happened since then has surely solidified that decision 3-fold. Demand for ALL new vehicles (especially >$30k) will be way down for a while.
 

mark360

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mark
Joined
Feb 13, 2020
Messages
172
Reaction score
141
Location
North Carolina
First Name
Mark
Vehicles
Tesla Model 3 AWD
Occupation
Manufacturing
Country flag
This is why I face-palm at Audi's new e-tron EV.

The manufacturer's don't get it. Americans want longer range EV's. 300 miles is really that magic number and anything over that is gravy. Tesla has proved this and as such if you can't make a 300 mile car, don't even try. At least in america, that is. We're talking over 100 mile WLTP range difference, and a lower price.

It seems like the big automakers are having an identity crisis with how they tailor their vehicle to a particular market. Ford knows the US market, since majority of sales are US, and as such came out with a banging EV that will sell worldwide better than any BMW product. Ford Mach E will sell 300,000 copies per year easy once they scale it up.

It is so evident. Look at their press release they did right beside Tesla in California in November.
 

dbsb3233

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tim
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
1,123
Reaction score
812
Location
Colorado, USA
First Name
Tim
Vehicles
2013 Ford Escape
Occupation
Retired
Country flag
The other thing Americans want: size. Which just like range, is dependent on getting more power from the batteries.

I'd be willing to trade a few miles of range for a bigger (and taller) SUV. Like say, a Ford Explorer with 250 mile range.
 

LYTMCQ

Well-Known Member
First Name
Lyt
Joined
Feb 2, 2020
Messages
914
Reaction score
346
Location
Portland
First Name
Lyt
Vehicles
Telsa Model 3 LR AWD
Country flag
Americans want longer range EV's. 300 miles is really that magic number and anything over that is gravy. Tesla has proved this and as such if you can't make a 300 mile car, don't even try. At least in america, that is
Tesla started out with lower range EV's. The 250 mile range would seem the sweet spot for most and Teslas Model 3 is 240 mile range as entry level EV.

I'd agree on the 300 but I do 25,000 miles a year and need public charging, so an extreme case..

BMW's main issue was weak EV market in US more than anything else and the need to get fleet emissions down in EU which also Ford's goal with Mach-E with it going to EU first and most, 60% of production.

Green New Deal could turn that around if we offer at $15k rebate for EV's vs. a fading tax cut. People could apply that to the purchase price and my Mach-E config would be $37k, about average for new car.
 

pbojanoski

Well-Known Member
First Name
Peter
Joined
Jan 4, 2020
Messages
381
Reaction score
416
Location
Pennsylvania
First Name
Peter
Vehicles
Mazda RX-8
Country flag
Green New Deal could turn that around if we offer at $15k rebate for EV's vs. a fading tax cut. People could apply that to the purchase price and my Mach-E config would be $37k, about average for new car.
Can't even start to say what a bad idea that would be, but I'm not willing to get into another pointless debate over whether actual people should decide what they want or if "smarter than the room" government types should do it for the dumb people. (Maybe I already said too much? ;) )
 

dbsb3233

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tim
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
1,123
Reaction score
812
Location
Colorado, USA
First Name
Tim
Vehicles
2013 Ford Escape
Occupation
Retired
Country flag
This is why I face-palm at Audi's new e-tron EV.

The manufacturer's don't get it. Americans want longer range EV's. 300 miles is really that magic number and anything over that is gravy. Tesla has proved this and as such if you can't make a 300 mile car, don't even try. At least in america, that is. We're talking over 100 mile WLTP range difference, and a lower price.

It seems like the big automakers are having an identity crisis with how they tailor their vehicle to a particular market. Ford knows the US market, since majority of sales are US, and as such came out with a banging EV that will sell worldwide better than any BMW product. Ford Mach E will sell 300,000 copies per year easy once they scale it up.

It is so evident. Look at their press release they did right beside Tesla in California in November.
That's why I think the bigger "electric" market for the US will probably be PHEV more than BEV.
 

pbojanoski

Well-Known Member
First Name
Peter
Joined
Jan 4, 2020
Messages
381
Reaction score
416
Location
Pennsylvania
First Name
Peter
Vehicles
Mazda RX-8
Country flag
That's why I think the bigger "electric" market for the US will probably be PHEV more than BEV.
I've heard anecdotes that PHEV cars get used like ICE cars or standard hybrid since people either don't have easy charging options or are just lazy about plugging in.

Any thoughts on how effective PHEV cars actually are at running battery electric most of the time?
 

eager2own

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2019
Messages
293
Reaction score
253
Location
Southlake, TX
Vehicles
2015 Porsche Panamera S e-Hybrid
Country flag
That's why I think the bigger "electric" market for the US will probably be PHEV more than BEV.
I actually disagree.
Sales of BEVs in US were up in 2019 over 2018. However, sales of PHEVs were down 31% from 2018.
Of plug-in cars sold last year in US, 74% were BEVs. Most expect the BEV dominance to continue or grow.

I am just one case of someone going from PHEV to BEV, but I'm sure there are others. Although my PHEV has the benefit of some electric range and the security of ICE for longer trips, I also have the weight, cost, and maintenance of both systems. Now that vehicles like the Mach E offer sufficient range, I don't need or want the redundancy, and I look forward to a BEV transition.
 
Last edited:

eager2own

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2019
Messages
293
Reaction score
253
Location
Southlake, TX
Vehicles
2015 Porsche Panamera S e-Hybrid
Country flag
I've heard anecdotes that PHEV cars get used like ICE cars or standard hybrid since people either don't have easy charging options or are just lazy about plugging in.

Any thoughts on how effective PHEV cars actually are at running battery electric most of the time?
Both my wife and I have PHEVs. However, I don't know if we're good examples for the general trends as we're both in the habit of plugging in every time we pull into the garage. I'm not sure if that's true for most.
Even as between the two of us, the answer to your question is different. My wife mostly drives short trips to schools, errands, and such. She is on electric the vast majority of the time.
My work commute is a bit longer and partly on highway (and I've a bit of a lead foot), so I'm on electric only about 30-50% of the time with the rest just running as a traditional hybrid.
So even just within our household the answer to your question is: it depends.
 
Top