dbsb3233

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There's not really a big market for PHEV (I include straight up EV's in that term) without government requirement and government subsidy.
If by that you mean you count BEVs as PHEVs, that's something different. The "H" in PHEV is "Hybrid". BEVs aren't hybrids. BEVs and PHEVs are both EVs, but they're distinct subsets of EVs.

EU has a robust public charging network so that makes lower range PHEV's more viabl.
PHEVs generally don't use public charging networks, and don't have DCFC at all. The small batteries just charge on L1 (or sometimes L2).

Range on a PHEV is mostly irrelevant, as the gas motor just takes over when the battery runs out. On road trips, it's just easier to fill it with gas. And around home, just do home recharges.
 

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Volvo for instance is going BEV in their smaller SUV (XC40) but only PHEV in their bigger ones. Same with the Ford Explorer, and Lincoln Aviator.
Actually in 2022 Volvo will offer a pure BEV XC90 with the redesign.
 

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A lot of expensive cars on that list and I don't have high hopes for many big sellers. I think almost all of them will be fringe players at best in the USA.
I agree - number of models doesn’t equate with volume of sales. In fact, I expect Tesla’s BEVs will still vastly dominate EV sales.
 

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PHEVs generally don't use public charging networks, and don't have DCFC at al
They do need to be upgraded to CCS and fast charging. With a 50 mile PHEV and fast charging, I could do my 24,000 in mostly EV mode with less charging time than the Tesla.
 

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Yep. ICE will still dominate for some time.

I posted that in part because there's a pattern there. The PHEVs include a number of larger vehicles that are too big for pure BEV (at least until batteries get better). Volvo for instance is going BEV in their smaller SUV (XC40) but only PHEV in their bigger ones. Same with the Ford Explorer, and Lincoln Aviator.
BEV only for smaller vehicles? Then what is the story about Rivian? ( https://rivian.com/about/) A large SUV with stated range of 400 miles plus.
 

dbsb3233

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Actually in 2022 Volvo will offer a pure BEV XC90 with the redesign.
I read that too. Still a ways out though. Be curious to see what the range is.

No doubt we'll gradually start seeing BEV versions of a few bigger vehicles rolling out in the coming years. But size = weight, and weigh = more power drain. That means either lost range, or bigger batteries. And bigger batteries = very long charging times.

That's why more larger vehicles (if they electrify at all) appear to be going the hybrid route rather than pure BEV.
 

dbsb3233

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I agree - number of models doesn’t equate with volume of sales. In fact, I expect Tesla’s BEVs will still vastly dominate EV sales.
In the near term, that'll surely be the case. Tesla still has a huge lead, and BEVs are still niche territory in the US right now. And frankly, there's still very little available. You still can't get something like a Kona or eNiro in most states in the US, even if you wanted one. And Audi, Jaguar, and BMW are just too expensive for most people. That's kinda left the Teslas, the Bolt, and the Leaf as the viable BEV choices for most of the US in recent years, and Bolt and Leaf are pretty frumpy for US consumers' tastes.

The Mach-e will probably be the first one to really challenge Tesla's early dominance in the US for BEVs. And there should be more truer SUVs in the coming years that will do better.
 

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That's why more larger vehicles (if they electrify at all) appear to be going the hybrid route rather than pure BEV.
It actually works the other way, the larger vehicles can carry more battery. Rivian's pick-up will have 400 mile range. Same is expected for Fords F-150, Lincoln and GMC Hummer.

Rivian is an exception to the norm.
As would Ford F-150E, GMC Hummer E scheduled for 2021 now 2022.

Ford F-150 is likely the most anticipated EV that is in process right now. Ford is a $500M investor in Rivian and it is likely with Rivian branded vehicles being delayed, that Rivian will be a big player in Fords F-150 launch.

"Electric Ford F-150 Could Be Here as Early as 2021. As Ford prepares to get the electric version of its top seller out on the streets, it's working on educating the public about EVs."

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a28947992/electric-ford-f-150-2021-planned/

https://electrek.co/2020/03/05/ford-f150-electric-render-inside-info/

" Ford. On top of building its own pickups, Rivian will build vehicles for Lincoln based on its “skateboard” EV platform."

https://www.engadget.com/rivian-ev-pickup-production-delayed-covid-19-082600996.html
 

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These sub 250 miles range models are kind of pathetic for anything but city driving as far as i am concerned, but a few years from now I would expect big changes.
 

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These sub 250 miles range models are kind of pathetic for anything but city driving as far as i am concerned, but a few years from now I would expect big changes.
Most Teslas sold were 200-240 with only the more recent ones being in the 300 mile range. If you have home charging, the 200 plus work well for everything but long trips. For a two car family a 200 mile five seater EV SUV/CUV is daily high mileage car, The lower cost, RWD Mach-E fits that market perfectly.
 

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It actually works the other way, the larger vehicles can carry more battery. Rivian's pick-up will have 400 mile range. Same is expected for Fords F-150, Lincoln and GMC Hummer.
The problem with chocking it full of batteries to get that range is charging time. The 400 mile Rivian has a 180 kWh battery. Gonna take forever to charge a battery that big (with current battery technology, anyway).

There's a point of diminishing returns. Sure, you CAN build a big vehicle with a ton of batteries, but then you really suffer on charging times.
 

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Gonna take forever to charge a battery that big (with current battery technology, anyway).
Telsa Model 3 charges at 250kWh. That's 1,000 miles an hour charging. Tesla ramps down to 175kWh at 30% charge, that's 700 mph. Taycan battery, 94kWh doesn't start ramp down until 55%

Taycan's 94kWh battery for example,

"The stated “5 to 80% in 22.5 minutes” recharge time can only be explained if the Taycan manages to keep the 270 kW up for at least half the charging cycle."

Rivian's 180 kWh battery based on currently available 350kWh public chargers, 45 minutes to 80%.

So every 300 miles a 45 minute charge.

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/09/0...o-charge-than-tesla-model-s-most-of-the-time/
 

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If you're something like the average American, it's one of the worst car choices you could possibly make.
  1. 1 Tesla Model 3 doesn't go far enough. ...
  2. 2 Reliability is the most important factor. ...
  3. 3 Tesla Model 3 is a waste of your money. ...
  4. 4 Either EVs are over or they're getting much better. ...
  5. 5 Good luck selling a used Model 3.
7 Reasons The Tesla Model 3 Is The Worst Car You Can Buy ...learnbonds.com › news › 6-reasons-the-tesla-model-3-is-the-worst-car...
It looks like that was an old article that was recently updated based on the "last updated" date. While it had some good points when it was originally published and some are probably still true, I don't think it stands up too well to where we are now with Tesla. I'll let the actual Tesla owners weigh in, but I do think this article is too negative for what we know today about the Model 3 and the new Model Y.
 
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