Bosch Doesn’t Like Electric Cars

[Kamuelaflyer]

https://electrek.co/2021/01/04/bosch-takes-bold-dumb-stance-against-electric-cars/


World’s largest auto supplier Bosch takes bold (and dumb) stance against electric cars

Fred Lambert
- Jan. 4th 2021 4:09 pm ET


@FredericLambert

Bosch, the world’s largest automotive supplier, has decided to take a bold, and arguably dumb, stance against electric cars based on new comments from its chairman.

Bosch and Electric Cars
Some people often forget that the transition to electric vehicles not only disrupts automakers but also the entire automotive supply chain.

Over the years, many automakers have focused on engines, body, and assembly, while relying heavily on suppliers for most components inside their vehicles.

It created some giant automotive suppliers like Bosch.

The company previously looked to take part in the transition to electric vehicles by getting involved in one of the most important components, if not the most important: battery cells.

In 2017, Bosch bought the solid-state battery start-up Seeo Inc. and has been sparsely revealing details about its plan to bring new battery technologies to market by 2020 with a 50 kWh battery pack weighing only 190 kg, but it never committed resources to start producing cells.

Later that year, the company confirmed that it was considering a €20 billion investment to create 200 GWh of battery cell production capacity by 2030. The move would have brought them to the same level or even higher than battery manufacturers like Panasonic, LG Chem, Samsung SDI, and CATL.

However, Bosch announced in 2018 that it will not go through with the plan, and instead, it even completely divested from its battery cell production assets.

The company said that it thought the investment was “too risky” and noted that they are still investing in their expertise in electric drivetrain.

Bosch is known in the EV community for its electric motors, especially for e-bikes.

Now Bosch goes anti-EVs?
Bosch supervisory board chairman Franz Fehrenbach commented on the current trend of governments putting deadlines on banning the sale of new vehicles equipped with internal combustion engines.

Fehrenbach encouraged the auto industry to fight the transition and repeated some misinformation about electric vehicles.

Germany’s T3N reported on new comments (translated from German):

“Fehrenbach finds clear words in the Stuttgarter Nachrichten on political initiatives towards electromobility. He is certain that there will be “double standards to the disadvantage of the internal combustion engine – and to the detriment of the climate” Fehrenbach literally: “On the other hand, German industry should really take a stand against it.” Everyone knows that even electric cars in the German and European electricity mix – contrary to what is often claimed – are not climate-neutral. The vehicles would be treated as zero CO2 vehicles because the generation of the charging current would be hidden. In addition, the manufacture of the batteries consumes a lot of electricity. In Asia, a very high proportion of this is still generated with coal-fired power plants. Fehrenbach thinks that these emissions are missing from the information on Co2 consumption.”

The chairman also stated that electric vehicles have an infrastructure problem with a need for 1 million more charging stations in Germany.

Electrek’s Take: Change or be left behind
The comments are basically mimicking comments made by Toyota’s CEO just last month.

They are both repeating the same misinformation that battery-electric vehicles are more polluting than gasoline-powered vehicles due to electricity being mainly produced by gas and coal in some places — something that has been proven false by several studies.

Not only is it already not accurate in most places, but it’s also short-sighted to focus on that considering the electric grid is also rapidly getting cleaner as new deployment of renewable energy is becoming significantly cheaper than coal and gas.

As for the infrastructure problem, it’s a laughable comment.

First off, if there’s a problem, then it should be a business opportunity to fix it. Bosch makes charging stations.

They should see this as an opportunity.

But I would also note that EV naysayers often misrepresent the infrastructure issue with EVs.

While I certainly admit that we need more DC fast-charging stations virtually everywhere to support the transition to electric vehicles, we don’t need millions of new charge points.

Naysayers often compare charging stations to gas stations, but most charging is done at home on existing electric infrastructure.

We mainly need charging stations to enable long-distance driving and support EV owners in cities who have to park on the street.

It is certainly a smaller infrastructure issue than hydrogen fuel cell, which Bosch is onboard with. Isn’t that strange?

They have several hydrogen fuel cell initiatives, and they have partnered with Nikola Motors, one of the shadiest companies ever, to help them produce hydrogen trucks.

What is up Bosch? Seriously.

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[Popeye]

https://electrek.co/2021/01/04/bosch-takes-bold-dumb-stance-against-electric-cars/


World’s largest auto supplier Bosch takes bold (and dumb) stance against electric cars

Fred Lambert
- Jan. 4th 2021 4:09 pm ET


@FredericLambert

Bosch, the world’s largest automotive supplier, has decided to take a bold, and arguably dumb, stance against electric cars based on new comments from its chairman.

Bosch and Electric Cars
Some people often forget that the transition to electric vehicles not only disrupts automakers but also the entire automotive supply chain.

Over the years, many automakers have focused on engines, body, and assembly, while relying heavily on suppliers for most components inside their vehicles.

It created some giant automotive suppliers like Bosch.

The company previously looked to take part in the transition to electric vehicles by getting involved in one of the most important components, if not the most important: battery cells.

In 2017, Bosch bought the solid-state battery start-up Seeo Inc. and has been sparsely revealing details about its plan to bring new battery technologies to market by 2020 with a 50 kWh battery pack weighing only 190 kg, but it never committed resources to start producing cells.

Later that year, the company confirmed that it was considering a €20 billion investment to create 200 GWh of battery cell production capacity by 2030. The move would have brought them to the same level or even higher than battery manufacturers like Panasonic, LG Chem, Samsung SDI, and CATL.

However, Bosch announced in 2018 that it will not go through with the plan, and instead, it even completely divested from its battery cell production assets.

The company said that it thought the investment was “too risky” and noted that they are still investing in their expertise in electric drivetrain.

Bosch is known in the EV community for its electric motors, especially for e-bikes.

Now Bosch goes anti-EVs?
Bosch supervisory board chairman Franz Fehrenbach commented on the current trend of governments putting deadlines on banning the sale of new vehicles equipped with internal combustion engines.

Fehrenbach encouraged the auto industry to fight the transition and repeated some misinformation about electric vehicles.

Germany’s T3N reported on new comments (translated from German):



The chairman also stated that electric vehicles have an infrastructure problem with a need for 1 million more charging stations in Germany.

Electrek’s Take: Change or be left behind
The comments are basically mimicking comments made by Toyota’s CEO just last month.

They are both repeating the same misinformation that battery-electric vehicles are more polluting than gasoline-powered vehicles due to electricity being mainly produced by gas and coal in some places — something that has been proven false by several studies.

Not only is it already not accurate in most places, but it’s also short-sighted to focus on that considering the electric grid is also rapidly getting cleaner as new deployment of renewable energy is becoming significantly cheaper than coal and gas.

As for the infrastructure problem, it’s a laughable comment.

First off, if there’s a problem, then it should be a business opportunity to fix it. Bosch makes charging stations.

They should see this as an opportunity.

But I would also note that EV naysayers often misrepresent the infrastructure issue with EVs.

While I certainly admit that we need more DC fast-charging stations virtually everywhere to support the transition to electric vehicles, we don’t need millions of new charge points.

Naysayers often compare charging stations to gas stations, but most charging is done at home on existing electric infrastructure.

We mainly need charging stations to enable long-distance driving and support EV owners in cities who have to park on the street.

It is certainly a smaller infrastructure issue than hydrogen fuel cell, which Bosch is onboard with. Isn’t that strange?

They have several hydrogen fuel cell initiatives, and they have partnered with Nikola Motors, one of the shadiest companies ever, to help them produce hydrogen trucks.

What is up Bosch? Seriously.

i thought it was a strange comment. Ford teamed up with Bosch to do the virtual reality training for technicians on the MME. But apparently Toyota and Bosch are really a match made in heaven?!

 

[stroszek]

Love that these business geniuses always think that no one has thought to actually systematically compare the climate impact of EVs vs ICEs including energy mixes manufacturing etc. I'm sure he's aware of the research and just lying through his teeth of course.

This infrastructure fear mongering is so dumb. I know everyone in the modern world is conditioned to think that we can't do anything except watch things that were built in the 30s and 60s slowly crumble around us, but massive infrastructure projects aren't new and they aren't impossible or even particularly difficult.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

i thought it was a strange comment. Ford teamed up with Bosch to do the virtual reality training for technicians on the MME. But apparently Toyota and Bosch are really a match made in heaven?!

Maybe they found out electric cars don’t have spark plugs?

 

[MailGuy]

This doesn't surprise me. My brother in-law, who works for a company that provides transmission seals (including for the infamous DPS6), and I have openly discussed how the transformation to electric has the potential to devastate auto parts suppliers and large portions of that supply chain up to and including repair shops. He's well informed, not a climate denier by any stretch of the imagination and generally forward thinking. His argument was based upon the large number of jobs potentially impacted. He made a compelling case. My own experience with hybrids and EV's to date supported his hypothesis. I'm happy to report that we are still on speaking terms though and even he followed in our footsteps and now sings the praises of his full hybrid.

 

[MailGuy]

Maybe they found out electric cars don’t have spark plugs?

Or frequent need for new brake pads or rotors.

 

[stroszek]

The jobs argument is certainly the most compelling case against EVs, and I completely get where any worker who works on ICE parts and is opposed to EVs is coming from. However the way our economy works is it creates entire sectors of the economy and then destroys them, and the cycle repeats over and over again. Even if there wasn't an environmental imperative to switch to EVs this would still happen eventually under the current system. The ICE industry has lasted a long time but nothing lasts forever.

Ultimately the only way to deal with this is to actually take care of the people and regions who lose their jobs instead of letting them twist in the wind like we have historically.

 

[balthisar]

However the way our economy works is it creates entire sectors of the economy and then destroys them, and the cycle repeats over and over again. Even if there wasn't an environmental imperative to switch to EVs this would still happen eventually under the current system. The ICE industry has lasted a long time but nothing lasts forever.

That's the way the economy is supposed to work, anyway. I think the point being raised has to do with interference and favoritism by world governments, you know, picking winners and losers, rather than letting the market decide. Say, like central planning the Lada or Volga rather than letting nature run its course.

And worse, instead of helping displaced workers, governments are giving rich folks like us subsidies to buy cars that we can already afford anyway. I mean, I'll take it, it's free money, but it's not a reason to choose BEV over ICE.

 

[stroszek]

That's the way the economy is supposed to work, anyway. I think the point being raised has to do with interference and favoritism by world governments, you know, picking winners and losers, rather than letting the market decide. Say, like central planning the Lada or Volga rather than letting nature run its course.

And worse, instead of helping displaced workers, governments are giving rich folks like us subsidies to buy cars that we can already afford anyway. I mean, I'll take it, it's free money, but it's not a reason to choose BEV over ICE.

If the government wasn’t constantly picking winners and losers most of these companies would’ve gone bust in 2009.

The way the US has structured this isn’t ideal and needs to expand and change but the solution isn’t to level the mystical playing field in favor of ICE.

 

[MailGuy]

Our government has a long history of interfering and disrupting "normal" behavior. It's called politics. What happens with EV tax breaks is no different than how the government heavily, heavily subsidizes agriculture due to the realities of how agri-business has evolved, or the oil companies, or ...

 

[Raymondjram]

Well, if Bosch doesn't like EVs, then the Germans can turn to Siemens, who makes electric trains.

 

[dbsb3233]

They are both repeating the same misinformation that battery-electric vehicles are more polluting than gasoline-powered vehicles

Strange, that isn't what I read from the quote. Sounded like he was simply saying they weren't ZERO emission, as they're being treated by the governments.

Plus, opposing a total ban of ICE passenger vehicles isn't the same as being anti-EV like the article is claiming. It's another one of these disingenuous "all or nothing" takes. That isn't what the guy said. Recognizing that there's room for BOTH BEV and ICE (and hybrids in between) is not "anti-EV".

 

[JamieGeek]

They can't completely hate EV's as They make some $$ off of them.

 

[GoGoGadgetMachE]

 

[andrewstevenson]

Sounds stupid

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