Breaker Panel Too Small for EV Charger

[MachEMaster]

I had a surprise visit from my neighbor who just took delivery of his sweet Ford F-150 Lightning Lariat. This is the first I have seen in the Wild. He had not yet got his charger installed, and was using level 1 at home, and parking at a local University, to use the free level 2.

Our home electrical panels are only 125 amp service. He would need an expensive upgrade to be able to realize the full 80 amp charging, and the vehicle to home that the Lightning is capable of. He expressed that he didn’t need that sort of capability. I recommended a DCC load shed device that I had installed for my EV charger. With this device, he can run his charger dialed down to 48amps, on his existing 125 amp panel. I have attached the link in hopes it might help others.

https://dccelectric.com/

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[Maquis]

His Lightning came with the Ford Mobile Charger which is another option. The FCSP can be dialed as low as 16A. Several possibilities.

 

[timbop]

You can dial down most EVSE without any special gadgets. Regardless I've upgraded my service connection in both homes I have owned, and it shouldn't cost anything from the utility's perspective. You will need someone competent to replace the meter pan and service panel, but I did most of that myself. If you're not handy I imagine it would cost $1000 to $2000

 

[mkhuffman]

That is a very interesting device. Thanks for sharing it.

BTW - I know it wasn't the point of your post, but I have to pass along some charger etiquette to your new EV owner neighbor.

The "free" EV charger at the local university is likely meant for students and employees at the school to use when working or taking class there. So unless your neighbor is an employee or student, he is stealing their electricity. "Free" chargers are not really free. Someone is paying.

Electricity theft is a big deal to those of us who try to use chargers responsibly. There have been a lot of discussions and debates about it in this forum. I know new EV owners are learning how it all works, and it is easy to think that those "free" chargers are meant for anyone to use. They are not.

The ones in retail parking lots are for customers of those stores only, and while shopping/eating there. And the ones at businesses are meant for people who work at those businesses. Hotel chargers are for hotel guest only.

He needs to charge at home and reconsider his theft of electricity. Assuming he isn't a student or employee, of course.

 

[Jiji]

You can dial down most EVSE without any special gadgets. Regardless I've upgraded my service connection in both homes I have owned, and it shouldn't cost anything from the utility's perspective. You will need someone competent to replace the meter pan and service panel, but I did most of that myself. If you're not handy I imagine it would cost $1000 to $2000

When I did mine (150A to 200A but I needed a bigger panel with more breakers) the utility service wire to the meter also needed updating. And if you have a whole house transfer switch for a backup generator that needs to match the new service as well.

 

[Mach-Lee]

That is a very interesting device. Thanks for sharing it.

BTW - I know it wasn't the point of your post, but I have to pass along some charger etiquette to your new EV owner neighbor.

The "free" EV charger at the local university is likely meant for students and employees at the school to use when working or taking class there. So unless your neighbor is an employee or student, he is stealing their electricity. "Free" chargers are not really free. Someone is paying.

Electricity theft is a big deal to those of us who try to use chargers responsibly. There have been a lot of discussions and debates about it in this forum. I know new EV owners are learning how it all works, and it is easy to think that those "free" chargers are meant for anyone to use. They are not.

The ones in retail parking lots are for customers of those stores only, and while shopping/eating there. And the ones at businesses are meant for people who work at those businesses. Hotel chargers are for hotel guest only.

He needs to charge at home and reconsider his theft of electricity. Assuming he isn't a student or employee, of course.

+1 to this, he shouldn't be using the university charger unless he works there. Rude to hog it so the other patrons of the university can't use it. Where I work we've had to shut off the chargers at times to discourage "outsiders" from using them.

For 125A service you can typically do a 50A breaker on the charger so he'll charge at 40A. That should be adequate. Someone should do a load calc to be sure but usually 40A gives enough overhead on 125A service without needing a load shed.

 

[Mach-Lee]

I had a surprise visit from my neighbor who just took delivery of his sweet Ford F-150 Lightning Lariat. This is the first I have seen one in the Wild. He had not yet got his charger installed, and was using level 1 at home, and parking at a local University, to use the free level 2.

Our home electrical panels are only 125 amp service. He would need an expensive upgrade to be able to realize the full 80 amp charging, and the vehicle to home that the Lightning is capable of. He expressed that he didn’t need that sort of capability. I recommended a DCC load shed device that I had installed for my EV charger. With this device, he can run his charger dialed down to 48amps, on his existing 125 amp panel. I have attached the link in hopes it might help others.

https://dccelectric.com/

And I'm curious, how often has your load shed activated? Does it record data on this? Assume you are charging at 48A with it?

 

[AKgrampy]

This is always a sore spot for me but if you can afford an $80,000 vehicle you can afford to upgrade your electric service. Permits and inspections are not required outside of the city limits where I live and it was ridiculous how people would cut corners with electrical installations/upgrades. I would even see on an occasional basis someone build a $200k new home but install some old, but still serviceable, piece of service entrance equipment. I can understand using this device; however, when an upgrade is not possible.

 

[Navy Bird]

I was worried that my breaker panel would need to be replaced, but it turned out to be a Square-D 200 amp box (unusual in this neck of the woods for a house like ours). So no problem installing a 240 v 60 amp breaker in the box. The problem was running the cable - over 70 feet to get from the breaker box to the garage on the opposite end of the house. The electrician did a great job feeding the wire through the ceiling and into the basement and then up into the garage. The mobile charger included with the MME seems to work as advertised.

How many of you take the mobile charger with you on road trips?

Cheers,
Bill

 

[MachEMaster]

His Lightning came with the Ford Mobile Charger which is another option. The FCSP can be dialed as low as 16A. Several possibilities.

That is a very interesting device. Thanks for sharing it.

BTW - I know it wasn't the point of your post, but I have to pass along some charger etiquette to your new EV owner neighbor.

The "free" EV charger at the local university is likely meant for students and employees at the school to use when working or taking class there. So unless your neighbor is an employee or student, he is stealing their electricity. "Free" chargers are not really free. Someone is paying.

Electricity theft is a big deal to those of us who try to use chargers responsibly. There have been a lot of discussions and debates about it in this forum. I know new EV owners are learning how it all works, and it is easy to think that those "free" chargers are meant for anyone to use. They are not.

The ones in retail parking lots are for customers of those stores only, and while shopping/eating there. And the ones at businesses are meant for people who work at those businesses. Hotel chargers are for hotel guest only.

He needs to charge at home and reconsider his theft of electricity. Assuming he isn't a student or employee, of course.

Thanks for posting. My neighbor was only using the Universisty Level 2 after hours, and only to get by when he needed to add charge that his level 1 couldn’t provide in a fixed amount of time.

I was worried that my breaker panel would need to be replaced, but it turned out to be a Square-D 200 amp box (unusual in this neck of the woods for a house like ours). So no problem installing a 240 v 60 amp breaker in the box. The problem was running the cable - over 70 feet to get from the breaker box to the garage on the opposite end of the house. The electrician did a great job feeding the wire through the ceiling and into the basement and then up into the garage. The mobile charger included with the MME seems to work as advertised.

How many of you take the mobile charger with you on road trips?

Cheers,
Bill

I always keep the mobile charger in the car, and have a Grizzle-E 40 amp charger for home.

 

[Logal727]

Find it hard to believe any modern home with an EV can get by without 200A service, should at least spend the money for his fancy truck, it will be totally worth it in the long run.

 

[mkhuffman]

Thanks for posting. My neighbor was only using the Universisty Level 2 after hours, and only to get by when he needed to add charge that his level 1 couldn’t provide in a fixed amount of time.

I hear you. But that charger is paid for by the University for students and employees to use. It does not matter if it is after hours. It is still theft.

I know it is a paradigm shift for new BEV owners, but think about it from the perspective of those who put in the chargers. Did they do that for your neighbor? Or is the cost for electricity part of their expenses for giving students a place to charge, and employees a place to charge?

I doubt you really think it was for your neighbor. Therefore it is stealing. No different from pumping your tank full at the local gas station, and driving off without paying.

 

[MachEMaster]

Find it hard to believe any modern home with an EV can get by without 200A service, should at least spend the money for his fancy truck, it will be totally worth it in the long run.

Yes I agree. A new home with a 125 amp panel, is not leaving the owner room to expand with A/C, Hot Tub, EV, etc. I didn’t want to upgrade my panel because of the added expense. I run a 10.27 kWh Solar PV array, and wanted to run my 40 amp charger without a panel upgrade.

I hear you. But that charger is paid for by the University for students and employees to use. It does not matter if it is after hours. It is still theft.

I know it is a paradigm shift for new BEV owners, but think about it from the perspective of those who put in the chargers. Did they do that for your neighbor? Or is the cost for electricity part of their expenses for giving students a place to charge, and employees a place to charge?

I doubt you really think it was for your neighbor. Therefore it is stealing. No different from pumping your tank full at the local gas station, and driving off without paying.

I realize this is something you feel strongly about. The Chargers are on the ChargePoint Network. There are no stipulations on the app, that you must be a student or employee. The only instructions are, first 4 hours are free, and $3 per hour thereafter. If it means the guy can charge his Lightning off hours for 4 hours, for a week until his charger is installed, I say go for it. I don’t think there is any theft in play here.

 

[mdraptor]

I am getting by with 110, an my buddy with a Tesla has been using 110 for 3 years.

 

[woody]

10.695kW solar array
battery back-up
critical load panel
200A main (not an option, rather a necessity) We initially ran the EVSE off a 150A. But with all of the electrical demand, it did not suffice.
100% electric home, ~ 4,000 sq. ft. (larger sq. footage would probably require more Amps)
produce more energy than we use (winter is currently the problem: should double solar array and triple or quadruple battery back-up and have bi-directional EV in order to supply winter demand. Hopefully, in the future, when they allow us to purchase affordable batteries!)
no fossil fuels used for energy
charge EVs (two of them, one or the other is plugged in [110] most of the time) directly from solar. Only rarely use EVSE
Best we could design for the present

Agreed. EVs, EVSE, solar, heat pumps, etc. - 200A is pretty much a must have

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