Build Back Better $12,000 tax credit?

[NewGuy]

Per my understanding:

1 - It's not passed so completely speculative at this point
2 - In it's current form, it wouldn't qualify because it's not built with US Union Labor
3 - The other credits are still available without BBB and would continue to be if it passes.

There's a ton of forum posts on this already if you search for them you'll see a bunch of discussion around it.

4 - in its current form there’s an income cap, making it more limiting than what is currently in effect.

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[Mach1E]

So apparently, as of Friday last week, There is a $12,500 tax credit now on Ford Mach-E as long as it's assembled in America and uses union labor? Anyone have more info on this? I'm trying to track down the details exactly.

It looks like the Mach-e is assembled in Mexico, but there is a stipulation in there for where the batteries are made... trying to find more info on that...

This video tells you everything you need to know at this point:

 

[Baseball1516]

I understand that the bill is currently with the Senate and the speculation is that there will be changes and a vote by Christmas. My question is, is there any chance that the Senate alters the proposed legislation to make it more favorable for the Mach E in 2022? I understand that under the proposed House language the Mach E tax rebate amount will not increase in 2022. I am planning on buying a Mach E tomorrow, but I would be very disappointed if somehow these last-minute changes ended up increasing the rebate for the Mach E in 2022. I assume nobody has any inside info, but any reason to believe the Mach E could benefit? If so, maybe I should just wait to buy until Jan. Thanks.

 

[TGIF]

Buy it now. A bird in the hand.

I don’t have a crystal ball but the MSRP caps in the House version are potentially problematic for many trim levels of the MME and I haven’t heard much blowback from the Senate about that. My understanding is that because the MME is made in Mexico the best one can hope for is to equal the current $7500 tax credit.

I’m looking for one to buy before the end of the year but not having any luck. As I’m not willing to pay thousands in ADM.

 

[sotek2345]

Buy it now. A bird in the hand.

I don’t have a crystal ball but the MSRP caps in the House version are potentially problematic for many trim levels of the MME and I haven’t heard much blowback from the Senate about that. My understanding is that because the MME is made in Mexico the best one can hope for is to equal the current $7500 tax credit.

I’m looking for one to buy bef the end of the year but not having any luck.

This exactly. If you get it this year, you know you are getting the $7,500 credit. You might get nothing in 2022.

I am desperately hoping ours arrives a couple days early (due Jan 2 to Jan 8) to lock in the credit. If not, we are just going to assume no tax credit unless something definitive has been signed into law by then (doubtful).

 

[Bobcat17]

well, the $7500 is pretty good

As long as you meet the income test.

 

[Mirak]

Hope springs eternal for Build Back Better. Both sides are still making overtures to negotiate, and I figured that after a holiday cooling off period the White House and Dem caucus would concede to Manchin's demands just to get a much smaller bill passed (a bill that could very well eliminate the expanded EV tax credits, amongst other cuts).

But I'm dubious as to the politics behind Sen. Schumer's new plan to shelve BBB and start 2022 with a focus on eliminating the filibuster to pass the For the People Act (voting rights legislation). Manchin and Sinema have both said, unequivocally and repeatedly, that they oppose eliminating the filibuster, so I'm not sure how ratcheting up the heat on them will help with respect to the FPA or with striking a deal on BBB.

To me, it looks more like the Senate is turning to the typical show votes and show battles ahead of the midterm elections - as opposed to actually trying to make a deal. I am hearing that the Dems believe there is some synergy in favor of the FPA to be drawn from the "January 6th Month" commemorations.

If anything, BBB looks less likely now than it did in December?

https://www.politico.com/newsletters/huddle/2022/01/04/toxic-positivity-rates-on-capitol-hill-495587

 

[Rt1AWD]

RiP BBB ?

 

[voxel]

Toyota is about to hit 200K in Q1 2022 (1-2 quarters earlier than predicted) and will begin phase out of credits after June 2022… to 50% for two quarters (Q3 and Q4) then 25% for another two quarters. They had a strong Q4 boosted by the RAV4 and Prius Primes.

I suspect Ford is very close to hitting 200K and most definitely will blow past it on the quarter the Lightning ships. Like Toyota, Ford were supposed to hit it mid 2022 and thus folks who have ordered MMEs this past fall would get the full $7500 credit because orders would be delivered before Q4 2022. There might be a possibility this won’t be the case. We might see 50% credits triggered June or Sept.

BBB would provide more certainty but I have strong doubts it will pass.

 

[tesla2mme]

Manchin will not support BBB - In its current form, it's dead. This is a moot issue currently.

 

[Rt1AWD]

For the life of me I don't understand why so many people want to point fingers at Manchin and Sinema. Regardless of what political side you fall on, or wobble between, you should be able to understand the need to listen to all sides and negotiate in good faith. There's 100 senators, not 1 or 2 so therefore if they would have made the BBB bi-partisan they would have been able to easily get 51 votes. It's those politicians that are at the extreme edges of politics that prevent common ground and killed BBB. The ones in the middle, like Manchin and Sinema should be the easiest to sway. If you can't convince a left leaning centrist to vote with a left agenda, how in the world would you expect anyone on the right? All this finger pointing is misguided.

This is why

 

[RedDragon]

Toyota is about to hit 200K in Q1 2022 (1-2 quarters earlier than predicted) and will begin phase out of credits after June 2022… to 50% for two quarters (Q3 and Q4) then 25% for another two quarters. They had a strong Q4 boosted by the RAV4 and Prius Primes.

I suspect Ford is very close to hitting 200K and most definitely will blow past it on the quarter the Lightning ships. Like Toyota, Ford were supposed to hit it mid 2022 and thus folks who have ordered MMEs this past fall would get the full $7500 credit because orders would be delivered before Q4 2022. There might be a possibility this won’t be the case. We might see 50% credits triggered June or Sept.

BBB would provide more certainty but I have strong doubts it will pass.

Amy good place to track the official numbers that are used for the 200k limit? I'd love to see it for a variety of manufacturers

 

[voxel]

Amy good place to track the official numbers that are used for the 200k limit? I'd love to see it for a variety of manufacturers

Only the outdated link

https://evadoption.com/ev-sales/federal-ev-tax-credit-phase-out-tracker-by-automaker/

Folks then used monthly sales date to estimate current sales figures. Toyota just officially published figures this week

https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota-motor-north-america-reports-u-s-december-year-end-2021-sales/

https://www.rav4world.com/threads/t...inue-for-another-quarter.318027/#post-2916885

For Ford, when do they release Mach-E and Escape PHEV figures? I suspect Ford will stay under 200K for another two quarters at least since I doubt the Escape PHEV sells in large numbers due production shortages (could be wrong).

 

[RedDragon]

Only the outdated link

https://evadoption.com/ev-sales/federal-ev-tax-credit-phase-out-tracker-by-automaker/

Folks then used monthly sales date to estimate current sales figures. Toyota just officially published figures this week

https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota-motor-north-america-reports-u-s-december-year-end-2021-sales/

https://www.rav4world.com/threads/t...inue-for-another-quarter.318027/#post-2916885

For Ford, when do they release Mach-E and Escape PHEV figures? I suspect Ford will stay under 200K for another two quarters at least since I doubt the Escape PHEV sells in large numbers due production shortages (could be wrong).

I just found these also:

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/plug-in-electric-vehicle-credit-irc-30-and-irc-30d

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/irc-30d-plug-in-electric-drive-motor-vehicle-credit-quarterly-sales

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/irc-30d-new-qualified-plug-in-electric-drive-motor-vehicle-credit

Unclear why on the quarterly sales data they dont have more manufacturers

 

[RickMachE]

The problem with a political discussion is that there's no right answer that everyone can agree upon.

The problem with politics is that there are too many people in politics that don't vote for what their constituents want, or should want if they understood the item being voted on.

"Hey Bob, do you want me to raise your taxes to repair that bridge in the next state?"

"No".

"But when we build a bridge, we have to plan for regular maintenance and eventual replacement".

"Not a bridge I use. Let it fall down."

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