Advertisement



Cadillac Lyriq debut today - will Ford give us any news to steal their thunder?

Njia

Well-Known Member
First Name
Scott
Joined
Jun 29, 2020
Messages
51
Reaction score
50
Location
Michigan
First Name
Scott
Vehicles
Ford Escape Hybrid, Ford Mustang Mach-E Premium/AWD/Extended Battery (ordered)
Country flag
I currently drive a 2018 XT5, which is the vehicle my MME will replace. I *might* have considered the Lyriq (or any Cadillac EV) as an alternative to the MME if it had been available by the end of this year. The Bolt, you may ask? Thanks ... but, no.

By the time the Lyriq is available, it is very likely to be a generation behind almost all other OEMs in terms of the specs that matter. Ultimately, that's always been Cadillac's (and, by extension, GM's) biggest problem: they pull their innovation punches. The Volt was a plug-in version of the Cruze. The Bolt was obviously a (CAFE) "compliance car." The Lyriq is aiming at meeting 2020's leaders. That won't cut it by the 2023 model year.
 

abr

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2020
Messages
207
Reaction score
263
Location
thousand oaks, ca
Vehicles
2010 Fusion Hybrid, 2019 Fusion PHEV
Country flag
Just seems very strange to be introducing a vehicle today that:

a) Won't be available for 2 1/2 years
b) Few Specs that they have announced are not unlike what is available today from many mfrs
c) No pricing announced, but expect to be on par with other luxury nameplates.

This just looks like a concept car with few concrete details. Are they just trying to keep their name out there in the marketplace?
 

jhalkias

Well-Known Member
First Name
John
Joined
Mar 3, 2020
Messages
1,635
Reaction score
2,986
Location
Ohio
First Name
John
Vehicles
2016 Escape, 2019 Fusion Energi
Occupation
Benefit Fund Administrator
Country flag
This entire "launch" was kind of tone deaf. Those of us into EV's who paid attention are definitely NOT impressed, and if their target audience is the Cadillac fan who is not necessarily into EV's, well, they probably weren't watching anyway. They absolutely must have thought with all the EV buzz out in the marketplace that they should do SOMETHING for their concept car to get in the conversation. However, what they did is just spawning ridicule.

Team Edison is probably laughing their asses off.
 

Kamuelaflyer

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bill
Joined
Feb 18, 2020
Messages
1,602
Reaction score
2,917
Location
Hawaii
First Name
Bill
Vehicles
Old
Country flag
I have no desire to even entertain the possibility of waiting around to purchase this car. I'd probably buy a Tesla (imperfections and all) before the Lyriq.
I never thought I'd say this but ... Tesla has competition for the world's ugliest BEV now.

I'd not buy either. Your mileage may vary. :)
 
Last edited:

timbop

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tim
Joined
Jan 3, 2020
Messages
2,655
Reaction score
4,857
Location
New Jersey
First Name
Tim
Vehicles
2015 Mustang Convertible (to be replaced by MME RT 1), 2016 Dodge Durango
Occupation
Software Engineer
Country flag
Um you do know that they are planning a refresh of the Bolt. They keep dropping hints now and then about when a new Bolt will be coming. Haven't formally announced anything yet.

Personally, I have no issues with the seats and I sit in them daily (well I used to before COVID).
Yes, I know they were PLANNING to refresh the Bolt this year, and put it off. I also know that when they DO refresh it sometime next year, they are planning to keep the SAME 50kw DCFC charging rate! I also haven't seen mention if supercruise or even adaptive CC will be included, but I believe they suggested that the seats will be redone. As for the current seats, I sat in one at the auto show after sitting in a couple of other cars, and there is a marked difference in the comfort of the seats. Maybe it's because I am a fat guy, but clearly the stiff seats would be tough for me on a long drive.

The Bolt has a list price of $37K - $43K, the Model 3 SR+ is $39K and the LR AWD is $47K. The only metric in which the Bolt exceeds the Tesla SR+ is range, and not by a lot. The SR+ is far more comfortable, far exceeds in Driver Assist technology, and DC charges 3 times faster. Coincidentally it also far outsells the Bolt. To even get them off the lot, Chevy has cut the price by $7K - $10K. If they actually address its shortcomings they might not have to discount it so much, but instead they plan a modest refresh next year. GM needs to get their head out of the sand and do actual market research like Ford did. Ford figured out what makes Teslas so compelling (except for the Finance guys who came up with the options rates) and built a compelling car at a comparable price. That Lyriq will be one more overpriced Cadillac which won't sell.

I like the phrase "there are those that make things happen, those that watch what happens, and those that wonder what the hell happened". Despite the great start they had with the Bolt in 2017, GM is clearly in the third category.
 

timbop

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tim
Joined
Jan 3, 2020
Messages
2,655
Reaction score
4,857
Location
New Jersey
First Name
Tim
Vehicles
2015 Mustang Convertible (to be replaced by MME RT 1), 2016 Dodge Durango
Occupation
Software Engineer
Country flag
That puts the cost of even a low-end vehicle pushing $40k.
Quite correct - and there are several of them available, including the base model of the best selling BEV in the world. Chevy is currently selling the Bolt in the low $30K range, which I thought was just a move to get rid of inventory and discontinue the car - but they are actually making more. If they addressed the key deficiencies, they could probably once again sell the Bolt in the $40K range because it would be comparable to what else is available in that price range.
 

Orangefirefish

Well-Known Member
First Name
SY
Joined
Mar 23, 2020
Messages
71
Reaction score
84
Location
USA
First Name
SY
Vehicles
N/A
Country flag
GM is so out of touch with reality and with what EV buyers want, that it’s not even funny. At least try to make something profitable, practical, and reasonably efficient. I mean, I guess it makes sense, their last announcement was the Electric Hummer pickup with specs that were a bit ridiculous given how much battery you’d need.
 

ajmartineau

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Messages
836
Reaction score
1,211
Location
Washington
Vehicles
2021 Mach-E
Country flag
Tesla tried the 80amp dual charger thing but dropped it because of the 100 amp service price tab, customer complaints/confusion. You might as level install a 24kW DCFC plug for the same price.
 

dbsb3233

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tim
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
4,945
Reaction score
5,028
Location
Colorado, USA
First Name
Tim
Vehicles
2013 Escape Titanium, 2021 Mustang Mach-E FE (Red)
Occupation
Retired
Country flag
Quite correct - and there are several of them available, including the base model of the best selling BEV in the world. Chevy is currently selling the Bolt in the low $30K range, which I thought was just a move to get rid of inventory and discontinue the car - but they are actually making more. If they addressed the key deficiencies, they could probably once again sell the Bolt in the $40K range because it would be comparable to what else is available in that price range.
It's probably possible to get it closer to $30k if the car is light enough (i.e. small enough) that it needs fewer batteries to squeeze out 300 miles. But then you're talking a small car which not too many Americans want (and can get in ICE for $20k). So same problem.

300 miles has been considered the standard needed for BEVs to go mainstream, but I'm beginning to think that's not the case. Because BEVs charge sooo slowly, 300 miles is still pretty weak for a road trip. 400 may have to be the target for an all-around home+road tripper.

But for a home car, 200-250 is sufficient. So we may see the cheaper BEVs just level off around there. That's a more limited market, of course (home-use), but it's still a substantial potential market.
 

Sneezy

Active Member
First Name
Sneezy
Joined
Mar 18, 2020
Messages
30
Reaction score
26
Location
Central NY
First Name
Sneezy
Vehicles
2000 Trans Am Firehawk, 2010 & 2018 Prius, 2019 Cadillac XT4
Occupation
NRA Rifle Instructor
Country flag
It looks huge. Looks. I have a Caddy XT4 which the Mach E will replace. Even on the XT, Caddy seems to be behind. The transmission sucks as well.

It looks cool but it's late to the market and it's to big for me. I put my wife and kids (they were smaller then but still...I can pack light) in my 2000 Trans Am and we drove to Kentucky on vacation. 13 hours in that baby!
 

timbop

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tim
Joined
Jan 3, 2020
Messages
2,655
Reaction score
4,857
Location
New Jersey
First Name
Tim
Vehicles
2015 Mustang Convertible (to be replaced by MME RT 1), 2016 Dodge Durango
Occupation
Software Engineer
Country flag
Tesla tried the 80amp dual charger thing but dropped it because of the 100 amp service price tab, customer complaints/confusion
Even at 19kw it will take 4-5 hours, so its useless for anything other than overnight. So the real question is: what is the benefit of your overnight charge finishing 4-5 hours before you wake up?

Meanwhile, where faster charging would truly help (DCFC) they're planning what will be a pedestrian-for-2023 150kw max. Whoever made those decisions clearly has no clue.

Again, they will be sitting around their boardroom wondering what the hell happened.
 

Maric

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2020
Messages
383
Reaction score
747
Location
CA
Vehicles
Grabber Blue FE
Occupation
Engineer
Country flag
Well, impressed as the design. I suspect going to be $20K + more than the MachE.
 



 









Advertisement


Top