Can I add another 60 amp breaker to this fuse box?

[AliRafiee]

I need another EVSE in the garage.
I currently have a 40 amp JuiceBox on a 50 amp breaker. I want to add another 40 or 50 amp EVSE.
The main fuse is 200 amp.
This is what’s in the box right now.

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[bbhaag]

It looks like it should be possible but it would be helpful to take the sub panel cover off so we can get get a closer look at the circuits. I've also never seen a sub panel orientated this way which might be cause for some concern.

It almost looks like you took the picture upside down.....

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Probably. If 24-26 aren't available, an electrician can tell you if your code allows replacing some of those full-sized 15A breakers with slimline or tandems is allowed and if so, you could maybe combine 4 such breakers into 2 tandems or 4 slimlines taking up half as much space, which would make space for the 60A 240V breaker. Check with an electrician.

 

[AliRafiee]

I’ll take the panel off tomorrow.
I wonder if the installed it upside down.
I’m not very happy with their work to begin with. It’s a new house. They put two of the bedrooms on a single 15 amp breaker. A couple of game consoles and a potable A/C makes it pop.
My office and living room are on the same circuit too. Have the same problem there. So annoying.

 

[AliRafiee]

Probably. If 24-26 aren't available, an electrician can tell you if your code allows replacing some of those full-sized 15A breakers with slimline or tandems is allowed and if so, you could maybe combine 4 such breakers into 2 tandems or 4 slimlines taking up half as much space, which would make space for the 60A 240V breaker. Check with an electrician.

There is room in the panel. I installed the 50 amp myself.
I’m worried about overloading the circuit.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

There is room in the panel. I installed the 50 amp myself.
I’m worried about overloading the circuit.

I was going to say unless things were badly wired, you would be unlikely to face an overload situation with those circuits, but maybe it's possible...given the combined rooms issue you're already facing.

How often do you have enough things running simultaneously that you see 160A being drawn on all those circuits combined? And how long does such a scenario last?

 

[AliRafiee]

I was going to say unless things were badly wired, you would be unlikely to face an overload situation with those circuits, but maybe it's possible...given the combined rooms issue you're already facing.

How often do you have enough things running simultaneously that you see 160A being drawn on all those circuits combined? And how long does such a scenario last?

I’ve never popped the main breaker. Just the ones for the two bedrooms and the one for the office/living room.
the only time they pop is when we are using the portable A/Cs.
Here in Seattle that’s only for 2-3 weeks out of the year.

 

[DevSecOps]

You can install a panel with the service breaker on the top or the bottom, either is acceptable. It just depends on where the service mains come from. There's no upside-down in that panel.

Yes, you have room to install a 60amp breaker (at very minimum in 24/26), but that's not what you should be concerned about, nor should you look at just the size of the breakers installed. You should take a look at what your usage is to determine if it's within the limits of the service (load calc).

Since you'll likely be charging at night I don't think there's anything to worry about. If you charge during the day you would want to consider total load. However, If you are charging both EVs at night you might need to take into consideration both of those vehicles, your always on usage and your AC/Furnace as those are likely the only things that would be active at that time unless you have a well, electric water heater etc.

Many people think that if they add up all the breaker sizes and it is larger than their service then they don't have room, which is incorrect. That would only be valid if you used all rated amperages at the same time, extremely unlikely.

If you don't know your loads you can use a tool like this to help. And as a shameless plug for my friends over a Schneider Electric, you could consider getting something like Sense to monitor your loads. If you're interested in that you can always join their community for help. Since I moderate those forums, I can guarantee you we are top notch over there

P.S. That's not a fuse box and those are breakers, not fuses. It's called a main load center, service panel, main panel etc.

 

[woody]

Otherwise(cannot see breaker labels):
Are you an all electric house?
Do you have solar?
Do you have a critical load panel?

 

[Dadams]

From what I see, you have a square D Homeline 200amp panel. I have the same panel (30 space 60 circuit), although yours does seem to be upside down in the picture(as to normal in MI), electricity doesn't actually care which way it goes. I also have way more 240v circuits on mine than yours, as I am 100% electric house. I have geothermal for heating and cooling, electric water heater, dryer, stove, oven, well, ETC... I am not saying it is right but, I have had no issues with adding a 60 amp breaker for my EVSE. If you schedule your car to charge after you go to bed, you should not have any issues.

 

[OON7]

I'm not an electrician, but the upside down remarks made me chuckle because I've only seen it the way the OP's look. I'm guessing if your power is coming in from an underground line it may make more sense with the main at the bottom, vs. off a pole it would probably be coming in from the top.

I'm just guessing though haha.

 

[Old_Norm]

In my city you can install a panel upside down only if the breakers are horizontal (on/off left or right). In other words, a panel can't be installed upside down if the breakers are vertical. The breakers would be installed incorrectly, e.g. up off and down on.

 

[Maquis]

There is nothing wrong with your panel orientation. As long as you don’t end up with breakers oriented where up is off, and down is on, it’s code-compliant.

Adding a 60A EVSE circuit is likely fine, but you need to have an NEC load calculation performed in order to get a definitive answer. A competent, licensed electrician should be well-versed in load calculations. Ask for a quote for them to do the work. They’ll have to do the load calculation, and you’ll know from the quote what’s possible.

 

[ManVsHumanity]

You should be fine. I'd have no concerns. You'd have to be close to full load on everything for even the main breaker to pop, and then, that not unsafe, you know you just overloaded, and in that case, you could set up your charging times to be at better times (at night where you won't have the AC on as much, no washer/dryer/oven/lights). Most of all your 15/20A circuits are not pulling anywhere close to 80% of the load, more likely 10%.
If you are overly concerned, you can also do the calcs yourself. For each outlet in your house, add 180 VA. (VA is easier to work with, cause your 200A panel is 200A at 240V, which is 48000VA available, but you should derate at 80%, so you have 38,400 available). So, take that qty of outlets x 180. Add your lighting, which if it's LED, will be minimal. For that, add up all the watts and divide it by 120. And remember, this is if ALL of your lights are on it the house. Then, for your laundry, just use 3000va. for your current EV, thats 9600 VA. Send a pic for any other loads it could be, the NEC has pretty standard VA you should use
Also, if you were going to pay an electrician to do the work, you could also think about going a different route, and sell your current EV charger and get 2 Wallboxes and put them on the same circuit. Then, they'll talk to each other and split the amperage between each other. They would start off equal, and then they'll give one car more amps than the other as it gets closer to being topped of. That could end up being cheaper then running an all new circuit.
Source: I'm a licensed electrical engineer.

 

[Fremont Kid]

You should be fine. I'd have no concerns. You'd have to be close to full load on everything for even the main breaker to pop, and then, that not unsafe, you know you just overloaded, and in that case, you could set up your charging times to be at better times (at night where you won't have the AC on as much, no washer/dryer/oven/lights). Most of all your 15/20A circuits are not pulling anywhere close to 80% of the load, more likely 10%.
If you are overly concerned, you can also do the calcs yourself. For each outlet in your house, add 180 VA. (VA is easier to work with, cause your 200A panel is 200A at 240V, which is 48000VA available, but you should derate at 80%, so you have 38,400 available). So, take that qty of outlets x 180. Add your lighting, which if it's LED, will be minimal. For that, add up all the watts and divide it by 120. And remember, this is if ALL of your lights are on it the house. Then, for your laundry, just use 3000va. for your current EV, thats 9600 VA. Send a pic for any other loads it could be, the NEC has pretty standard VA you should use
Also, if you were going to pay an electrician to do the work, you could also think about going a different route, and sell your current EV charger and get 2 Wallboxes and put them on the same circuit. Then, they'll talk to each other and split the amperage between each other. They would start off equal, and then they'll give one car more amps than the other as it gets closer to being topped of. That could end up being cheaper then running an all new circuit.
Source: I'm a licensed electrical engineer.

Appreciate that you explained calculating 80% of the load and derating by that amount. This was explained to me both my brother who is a retired journeyman electrician and the electrician who installed my charger. Maxing out the circuits and pulling more than 80% creates risks. AliRafiee is at the limit with his current 50A circuit connected to the 40A Juicebox (80% of 50A = 40A). It should not flip off, but could be susceptible if your home is pulling a lot of electricity through the other circuits, as others have commented.
This is a great forum, presenting excellent advice!

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