Can't deal with the bouncy ride anymore after two weeks with the Mach-E. What do I do?

markboris

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If this is to scale there isn't much of a stroke in the rear shock. If you replace the springs with the Eibach kit they supply what looks like an inch shorter bump stop, obviously needed as it's a 1 inch drop on the rear.
Screenshot 2023-01-12 at 12.54.54 PM.png
As I said in this post, #1,316 , in the rear there is 2.5" travel in the premium, 2.1" travel in the GT so no, not a lot.
 

markboris

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There has been a bit of talk about the bounce the MME has. 😊

I don't have nearly as much bounce that others do because one, I have the magneride suspension and two, I have no roads around here that would induce this bounce. I want to state up front, the magneride while better than the premium I had, is not tuned well at all for this car. Nothing like the mageride on my other cars.

All this said, I am working on fitting rear shocks from Bilstein and Koni. The Koni's are adjustable and Bilstein's are not. I am tired of waiting for these guys to come out with something specific to the Mach-E. As of now, nothing is close that they make fit for the fronts so can only work on the rears. Hopefully it can make some difference. This is an ongoing project.......

I have found a shock that has the same length, rod travel and mounting as our MME. I have set up both the Koni's and Bilstein's to fit and I have tested them on my car to make sure they work without issues.

I have no idea how they will perform or if they will make the ride/bounce better or worse. I am going to find out on Anton's car (premium) who lives 2 hours away has a road that induces really bad bounce about 5 minutes from his house. I should be able to test these out within the next two weeks.

Our MME shocks have a firm compression and a weak rebound. I personally feel we should have a shock that is either more 50/50 like the Bilstein's are or more rebound than compression like you can adjust the Koni's to have. I have used both brand shocks for many years on my cars and trucks and prefer the Bilstein's as they have always been a smoother ride but with the MME I have no idea what will happen.

I would like to be able to replace both front and rear but like I said earlier nothing is remotely close to what we have for a strut without some welding so we need to wait until someone finally makes them. I feel the back end has more to do with the bounce anyway as the springs have a high rate to handle passengers and cargo in the rear and the OEM shocks are not very well damped. As far as cost, the Bilsteins run about $140 each, the Koni's $185. The upper shock support and bumper stop you can remove from the OEM shock and the only other thing needed are the M10 (Bilstein) or M12 (Koni) spacers so that the shock fits properly in the OEM's upper mount. The spacers are cheap (don't remember how much).

Below I show what I did to get these shocks to fit perfectly which is really not much. I'm only showing the Bilstein as the Koni is the same except for a few changes in bushing sizes I will list below.


Bilstein rear shock, Ford bumper stop, Bilstein dust cover, Ford upper shock support, 2 M12 washers, 1” M10 spacer (Koni 1" M12 spacer), 3/4” M10 spacer (Koni 1/2" M12 spacer), rod nut and Ford dome cover.

Ford Mustang Mach-E Can't deal with the bouncy ride anymore after two weeks with the Mach-E. What do I do? B1


Install bumper stop in dust cover

Ford Mustang Mach-E Can't deal with the bouncy ride anymore after two weeks with the Mach-E. What do I do? B2


Install dust cover on shock and 1" spacer on rod end

Ford Mustang Mach-E Can't deal with the bouncy ride anymore after two weeks with the Mach-E. What do I do? B3


You need drill out the hole in the Ford shock support just a bit bigger using a 13/32" drill for the Bilstein (15/32" for the Koni's) for it to fit the shock rod. Install the support on the shock, then the 3/4" M10 spacer (1/2" M12 Koni), then tighten with the supplied nut. Use a 17MM wrench on the nut and 5mm allen wrench in the rod center to hold from turning. The Koni's use a 19MM wrench for the nut and a 9MM wrench to hold the end of the rod.

Ford Mustang Mach-E Can't deal with the bouncy ride anymore after two weeks with the Mach-E. What do I do? B4


On the top caps, shave off the protrusions of the tabs so that it fits easily over the nut and spacer. For the Koni's drill a small 1/4" hole at top center to allow the adjustment tab to poke through. You can easily adjust the shock using the supplied adjusting knob which will fit over the tab.

Ford Mustang Mach-E Can't deal with the bouncy ride anymore after two weeks with the Mach-E. What do I do? B5


Final shock ready to install. The two M12 washers are to be fitted on either side of the lower mount when installing the bolt to take up the slight bit of space there is between the shock mount and the lower control arm.

Ford Mustang Mach-E Can't deal with the bouncy ride anymore after two weeks with the Mach-E. What do I do? B6


Both the Bilstein and Koni shocks ready to mount

Ford Mustang Mach-E Can't deal with the bouncy ride anymore after two weeks with the Mach-E. What do I do? IMG_4671


Wish us luck!

EDIT:

I should note that while you can use the top shock support and bumper stop from the OEM shocks, I bought a pair of each so I could equip both Bilstein and Koni shocks with them so changing them out for testing would be a quick process. Changing the rear shocks on the car is fairly easy and should take 30 minutes or less. Raise up the rear on one side and remove the wheel/tire. Using an 18mm socket and ratchet, unscrew the top two support bolts holding the shock on. With a 15mm socket and watched, unscrew the bolt holding the lower support of the shock and lift out the shock. Reinstall the in the reverse order. Lower bolt goes in first, then the two upper bolts. If you have an impact driver, it is easier to remove the upper bolts as they are at the back of the wheel well. If not, you will need a long extension to get some leverage to remove the upper bolts. The torque specs for both the lower and upper bolts is 81 ft. lbs.
 
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kennethjk

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There has been a bit of talk about the bounce the MME has. 😊

I don't have nearly as much bounce that others do because one, I have the magneride suspension and two, I have no roads around here that would induce this bounce. I want to state up front, the magneride while better than the premium I had, is not tuned well at all for this car. Nothing like the mageride on my other cars.

All this said, I am working on fitting rear shocks from Bilstein and Koni. The Koni's are adjustable and Bilstein's are not. I am tired of waiting for these guys to come out with something specific to the Mach-E. As of now, nothing is close that they make fit for the fronts so can only work on the rears. Hopefully it can make some difference. This is an ongoing project.......

I have found a shock that has the same length, rod travel and mounting as our MME. I have set up both the Koni's and Bilstein's to fit and I have tested them on my car to make sure they work without issues.

I have no idea how they will perform or if they will make the ride/bounce better or worse. I am going to find out on Anton's car (premium) who lives 2 hours away has a road that induces really bad bounce about 5 minutes from his house. I should be able to test these out within the next two weeks.

Our MME shocks have a firm compression and a weak rebound. I personally feel we should have a shock that is either more 50/50 like the Bilstein's are or more rebound than compression like you can adjust the Koni's to have. I have used both brand shocks for many years on my cars and trucks and prefer the Bilstein's as they have always been a smoother ride but with the MME I have no idea what will happen.

I would like to be able to replace both front and rear but like I said earlier nothing is remotely close to what we have for a strut without some welding so we need to wait until someone finally makes them. I feel the back end has more to do with the bounce anyway as the springs have a high rate to handle passengers and cargo in the rear and the OEM shocks are not very well damped. As far as cost, the Bilsteins run about $140 each, the Koni's $185. The upper shock support and bumper stop you can remove from the OEM shock and the only other thing needed are the M10 (Bilstein) or M12 (Koni) spacers so that the shock fits properly in the OEM's upper mount. The spacers are cheap (don't remember how much).

Below I show what I did to get these shocks to fit perfectly which is really not much. I'm only showing the Bilstein as the Koni is the same except for a few changes I will list below.

Bilstein rear shock, Ford bumper stop, Bilstein dust cover, Ford upper shock support, 2 M12 washers, 1” M10 spacer (Koni 1" M12 spacer), 3/4” M10 spacer (Koni 1/2" M12 spacer), rod nut and Ford dome cover.

Ford Mustang Mach-E Can't deal with the bouncy ride anymore after two weeks with the Mach-E. What do I do? IMG_4671


Install bumper stop in dust cover

Ford Mustang Mach-E Can't deal with the bouncy ride anymore after two weeks with the Mach-E. What do I do? IMG_4671


Install dust cover on shock and 1" spacer on rod end

Ford Mustang Mach-E Can't deal with the bouncy ride anymore after two weeks with the Mach-E. What do I do? IMG_4671


You need drill out the hole in the Ford shock support just a bit bigger using a 13/32" drill for the Bilstein (15/32" for the Koni's) for it to fit the shock rod. Install the support on the shock, then the 3/4" M10 spacer (1/2" M12 Koni), then tighten with the supplied nut. Use a 17MM wrench on the nut and 5mm allen wrench in the rod center to hold from turning. The Koni's use a 19MM wrench for the nut and a 9MM wrench to hold the end of the rod.

Ford Mustang Mach-E Can't deal with the bouncy ride anymore after two weeks with the Mach-E. What do I do? IMG_4671


On the top caps, shave off the protrusions of the tabs so that it fits easily over the nut and spacer. For the Koni's drill a small 1/4" hole at top center to allow the adjustment tab to poke through. You can easily adjust the shock using the supplied adjusting knob which will fit over the tab.

Ford Mustang Mach-E Can't deal with the bouncy ride anymore after two weeks with the Mach-E. What do I do? IMG_4671


Final shock ready to install. The two M12 washers are to be fitted on either side of the lower mount when installing the bolt to take up the slight bit of space there is between the shock mount and the lower control arm.

Ford Mustang Mach-E Can't deal with the bouncy ride anymore after two weeks with the Mach-E. What do I do? IMG_4671


Both the Bilstein and Koni shocks ready to mount

Ford Mustang Mach-E Can't deal with the bouncy ride anymore after two weeks with the Mach-E. What do I do? IMG_4671


Wish us luck!
Out of curiosity which model of each are you trying?

good luck, looking forward to seeing the results.
 

markboris

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Out of curiosity which model of each are you trying?

good luck, looking forward to seeing the results.
Bilstein has a chart of technical specs on all their shocks. The one that came the closest was actually for any 2005-2014 Mustang (rear). So any shock (KYB, Monroe, Gabriel, etc) made for that car would work. While I could have chosen a lesser shock for only $30, they don't have the dampening that the Bilstein and Koni's have. I actually have one more shock coming in from Viking. it is the most expensive of the lot at $240 but it is dual adjustable (adjusts compression and rebound separately). I have a feeling I will not be testing this shock as that involves more tuning than I want to get into. I could always take the car to a suspension tuning place like Chris Alston's Chassisworks here in Sacramento (https://www.cachassisworks.com/) and have him look at it. I'm sure he can make it ride like a caddy but all of this would be a bit too much. I am mainly doing this to see if I can improve the ride for others with non magneride MME's.

The Bilstein part number is 24122245. It is their Heavy Duty B6 model. About $135
The Koni part number is 8241 1240Sport. It is their sport yellow series adjustable shock. About $205
The Viking part number is B226. Dual Adjustable for both compression and rebound. About $240
 
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tuminatr

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Bilstein has a chart of technical specs on all their shocks. The one that came the closest was actually for any 2005-2014 Mustang (rear). So any shock (KYB, Monroe, Gabriel, etc) made for that car would work. While I could have chosen a lesser shock for only $30, they don't have the dampening that the Bilstein and Koni's have. I actually have one more shock coming in from Viking. it is the most expensive of the lot at $240 but it is dual adjustable (adjusts compression and rebound separately). I have a feeling I will not be testing this shock as that involves more tuning than I want to get into. I could always take the car to a suspension tuning place like Chris Alston's Chassisworks here in Sacramento (https://www.cachassisworks.com/) and have him look at it. I'm sure he can make it ride like a caddy but all of this would be a bit too much. I am mainly doing this to see if I can improve the ride for others with non magneride MME's.

The Bilstein part number is 24122245. It is their Heavy Duty B6 model.
The Koni part number is 8241 1240Sport. It is their sport yellow series adjustable shock.
The Viking part number is B226
This may be something to keep in mind.

The forgotten part of car suspension design - minimizing pitch

He talked about reducing pitch one of the things is to interconnect the front and rear suspension like magneride
 

markboris

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This may be something to keep in mind.

The forgotten part of car suspension design - minimizing pitch

He talked about reducing pitch one of the things is to interconnect the front and rear suspension like magneride
Thanks Brian for sharing this video. Seems like it would be easy for manufacturers to produce a car with less pitch than they seem to do today but like he says, he thinks they forgot how to design car suspensions.

I do not in any way claim to know how to design a suspension however, from reading and watching quite at few videos they seem to point to the fact that we might have a rear suspension that is underdamped. There have been several members here that posted they have talked to suspension gurus that feel the same so I thought it was worth a try to see if this is true.

While I don't know the exact spring rates of the front and rear, I know they are different (as they should be). What I do know is the shocks (non-magneride) both front and rear, work almost exactly the same as far as their motion. I understand a person pushing down on a shock cannot in any way replicate how it will work in a car but when I push down (compress) either the front strut or rear shock, they have almost the same pressure, resistance. When I let go, the rebound comes springing back up quickly so basically very little rebound. It is kind of like a pogo stick. Both the Bilstein and Koni have the same pressure, resistance in rebound as they do in compression with the Koni being more or less adjustable in the rebound. In changing the rear shocks to have more rebound than the front OEM struts, I will be in a sense stiffening the motion in the rear a bit more than the front which in his video is recommended. He was probably talking about springs but hey, got to check this out.

I can be way off on all of this but it I won't know until I try it out. Right now the date I have planned for this is Saturday the 11th.
 

azerik

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Beat me to it! I'm getting my car back around lunch today but don't think I am going to get the chance to take it apart again as soon as I get it home. My 50/50 adjustables are on the shelf partially mocked up as well. Something I keep thinking about is the standard bushing for the stud mount shocks. It has a little give as it doesn't get smashed on install. I'm wondering how much give that little bushing gives to the road. Reality is it can't move more than 1/4 inch or so each way. But the diaphragm type mount in the upper shock mount flexes a little. Maybe more, maybe less. I havn't pulled my mounts off yet but I had thought about using the provided double doughnut upper. Problem is the factory bump stop wont fit with those on so I'm in the air. It would require modding a set of upper mounts to accept this.
Ford Mustang Mach-E Can't deal with the bouncy ride anymore after two weeks with the Mach-E. What do I do? Screenshot 2023-03-03 at 8.55.36 AM

I did pick up lower 2.36in (factory is 2.46in) x 3/4 bushings to fit the lower. QA1 notches that bushing and uses an external c clip to stop the shock from walking down that bushing. I'd have to go get these turned to use that clip or find a urethane body bushing or the likes to keep it from walking.

Ford Mustang Mach-E Can't deal with the bouncy ride anymore after two weeks with the Mach-E. What do I do? IMG_4138.JPG

The supplied qa1 bushing is 2.1 in x 34 14mm ID.
Mine is 2.36in x 0.75in (OD) x 12mm (ID)
 

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Eric, the QA1 is a really good shock like the Viking that I most likely will not be trying out.

I could have gone with the shock provided double donuts like your photo above but I wanted the top of the shocks to mount the same as the OEM shocks do, directly and solid to the OEM support. The bump stops are at the top of the dust covers and are not moving from that spot, same as the OEM's are. The lower mounts on both the Bilstein's and Koni's are just shy of fitting snugly into the lower control arm. This is why I put a thin washer on each side of the support when installing the lower bolt.
 

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Yep. I think I can crank on the lower bolt to get the 10th of an inch sucked up. These were as close as I could get. I was staring at an actual wall of bushings. I love having offroad shops around. My thought with the double doughnut was it's translation into absorbing 1/2 or less vibrations before the stiffness of the shock was used. An attempt at possibly tuning out some minor road chatter. It's probably a futile effort for the little amount that it would do. I'm very on the fence of replacing the tires, like tomorrow, because I know the PS3's are garbage and rough. Just swapping tires would probably do twice as much good as messing around with the doughnut bushings.

When you've pulled the shocks off all the other times, did you notice the 5 to 10 degree cant on the lower bushing?


I can be way off on all of this but it I won't know until I try it out. Right now the date I have planned for this is Saturday the 11th.
Oh then you might not have beat me to it. My wife flys out mid next week. Means I get garage time without interruption.
 

markboris

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Yep. I think I can crank on the lower bolt to get the 10th of an inch sucked up. These were as close as I could get. I was staring at an actual wall of bushings. I love having offroad shops around. My thought with the double doughnut was it's translation into absorbing 1/2 or less vibrations before the stiffness of the shock was used. An attempt at possibly tuning out some minor road chatter. It's probably a futile effort for the little amount that it would do. I'm very on the fence of replacing the tires, like tomorrow, because I know the PS3's are garbage and rough. Just swapping tires would probably do twice as much good as messing around with the doughnut bushings.

When you've pulled the shocks off all the other times, did you notice the 5 to 10 degree cant on the lower bushing?



Oh then you might not have beat me to it. My wife flys out mid next week. Means I get garage time without interruption.
I can crank on the lower bolt too and that lower control arm will suck up that last bit of space but I would rather put a washer in there and have it snug to begin with. The donut thing at the top really won't do much at all. I could have gone that route but I wanted the shock to mount same as OEM and wanted it to look same as OEM with the top dust cover installed. That is why I used those particular sized spacers and they are different for the Bilstein and Koni. I could have used any size spacer but then the dust cover would not fit. I know this has nothing to do with the actual operation but wanted to keep the OEM look.

Yes I can't get down to Anton's until the 11th. I mean I can try them out on my car right now but I don't have any roads around here that induce the bounce. Plus having the magneride shocks on the front of the car won't act the same as the non-magneride shocks so it would not be a fair test.
 

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Thanks Brian for sharing this video. Seems like it would be easy for manufacturers to produce a car with less pitch than they seem to do today but like he says, he thinks they forgot how to design car suspensions.

I do not in any way claim to know how to design a suspension however, from reading and watching quite at few videos they seem to point to the fact that we might have a rear suspension that is underdamped. There have been several members here that posted they have talked to suspension gurus that feel the same so I thought it was worth a try to see if this is true.

While I don't know the exact spring rates of the front and rear, I know they are different (as they should be). What I do know is the shocks (non-magneride) both front and rear, work almost exactly the same as far as their motion. I understand a person pushing down on a shock cannot in any way replicate how it will work in a car but when I push down (compress) either the front strut or rear shock, they have almost the same pressure, resistance. When I let go, the rebound comes springing back up quickly so basically very little rebound. It is kind of like a pogo stick. Both the Bilstein and Koni have the same pressure, resistance in rebound as they do in compression with the Koni being more or less adjustable in the rebound. In changing the rear shocks to have more rebound than the front OEM struts, I will be in a sense stiffening the motion in the rear a bit more than the front which in his video is recommended. He was probably talking about springs but hey, got to check this out.

I can be way off on all of this but it I won't know until I try it out. Right now the date I have planned for this is Saturday the 11th.
I am not a suspension engineer but my takeaway is this is exactly what I experience over bumps. Sounds like the solution is softer dampening of the front shocks so the front and rear bounce in unity. You could also stiffen the rear dampening to get the same effect but you may not want to do that.
 

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I haven’t ridden in a non-Magneride car over those types of roads, but the symptoms people have been describing appear to me that rear rebound control needs to be improved. 🤷‍♂️🐩

EDIT: I should point out that less rear rebound control is generally used to allow the tires to follow potholes and other dips more easily (in order to reduce traction loss when the car sees a dip). Increasing rebound control doesn’t increase ride harshness as much as increasing compression control does. 😊🐩
 
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Part of the harmonic bounce is the car pitching forward and back. That's where some adjustable rebound would help, but it will 'load up' at some point when the rebound doesn't allow the wheel to extend to the height needed to keep the bounce from happening. This type of boat rocking is usually solved by higher rebound to slow the extension of the shock. But if the rebound is too stiff the tire will skip, like moguls on a ski slope.

I have a small section of terror road hopping on the freeway that I've got to figure out a way to record actual numbers. It's a horrible experience. I know I could solve that little bit of 300ft with stiffer rebound. But over a 1000ft long section like some of these Cali roads the should would load up in the compression. The car would actually start to pogo more. And the faster you go would also change the loading up. I deal with this on my Can-Am and running dune whoops that are 15 inches or so. I can tune the car to run flat out 75+ mph and it just floats mostly like they arn't even there. But if I take that same section at 25 mph it's a terrible whoppadiedoo up down up down up down. I I adjust the shocks to take that at 25 nicely it's so loose the shocks bottom out at 45mph and we'll pretty much crash.

I was hoping magnaride would adyust like the Fox Smart-Shocks but it doesn't sound like they bothered to get all that detailed in how it reacts. QA1 has a magnaride type of shock. But throwing $8k+ at a suspension to solve this seems silly. I'd assume the Gen2 ends up with a decent amount of change in the shock dept.

The set of QA1's I have are 1 adjustment for compression and rebound (18 clicks). I might go down the route later of dual adjust. Like the KW's but just solving the rear issue with using stock springs.
 

markboris

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I haven’t ridden in a non-Magneride car over those types of roads, but the symptoms people have been describing appear to me that rear rebound control needs to be improved. 🤷‍♂️🐩
Which is exactly what Erik and I will be testing out.
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