Pushrods&Capacitors

Well-Known Member
First Name
Brian
Joined
Jun 24, 2021
Threads
28
Messages
1,751
Reaction score
3,237
Location
Round Rock, TX
Vehicles
‘21 4X, ‘14 SS Sedan tuned, ‘17 WRX tuned
Occupation
Analyst
Country flag
Yeah but most of us won’t consider those because they’re ugly 😂
I’d rather have a fantastic looking Mach E that can win most stop light races than the i4 or the Polestar (which apparently will fall apart before hitting 80mph anyway lol).
I mean, sure, looks are subjective so no point arguing that. Mach E looks the best for sure. But, pointing out Polestar quality woes while Mach Es are welding their HVBJ contactors among all of the other smaller issues strikes me as a bit tone deaf. The MME is no bastion of high reliability at this juncture, maybe as time goes on.
Sponsored

 

Pushrods&Capacitors

Well-Known Member
First Name
Brian
Joined
Jun 24, 2021
Threads
28
Messages
1,751
Reaction score
3,237
Location
Round Rock, TX
Vehicles
‘21 4X, ‘14 SS Sedan tuned, ‘17 WRX tuned
Occupation
Analyst
Country flag
I know its semantics but seeing as most of the vehicles that use a boost tend to be setup so that the boost is for the maximum available power that can be achieved from the motors. If the GT/GTPE had 5 seconds worth of the full fat 562hp for 5 seconds before dropping back to 480hp then that would be a valid boost and I doubt anyone would be complaining but 5 seconds of what is already significantly less than maximum power is not what I class as a boost but rather inadequate engineering.
Yep. Facts. It gives rated power for 5 seconds and then you get like 200HP, unacceptable for a GT.
 
OP
OP
Stang68

Stang68

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2020
Threads
13
Messages
1,204
Reaction score
2,392
Location
USA
Vehicles
Grabber Blue Mustang Mach E GT Performance
Country flag
I mean, sure, looks are subjective so no point arguing that. Mach E looks the best for sure. But, pointing out Polestar quality woes while Mach Es are welding their HVBJ contactors among all of the other smaller issues strikes me as a bit tone deaf. The MME is no bastion of high reliability at this juncture, maybe as time goes on.
This is true, but all new cars have teething issues, seems like actual *quality* of the Polestars is a joke. A shame, too, considering the Volvo pedigree.
 
OP
OP
Stang68

Stang68

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2020
Threads
13
Messages
1,204
Reaction score
2,392
Location
USA
Vehicles
Grabber Blue Mustang Mach E GT Performance
Country flag
I know its semantics but seeing as most of the vehicles that use a boost tend to be setup so that the boost is for the maximum available power that can be achieved from the motors. If the GT/GTPE had 5 seconds worth of the full fat 562hp for 5 seconds before dropping back to 480hp then that would be a valid boost and I doubt anyone would be complaining but 5 seconds of what is already significantly less than maximum power is not what I class as a boost but rather inadequate engineering.
I agree with this, if there’s a boost function it should be more than the rated horsepower, or if it’s not (since it’s just built in instead of like the “Boost” button on the GV60) then at least don’t drop the horsepower significantly after the 5 seconds. A small drop is understandable but what happens now is not ideal for a GT.

I do think Ford could extend this boost even like 2 or 3 seconds without detrimental effects to the vehicle, but it would go a long way for those people interested in dragstrip times.
 

SWO

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2021
Threads
19
Messages
2,075
Reaction score
2,560
Location
MD, USA
Vehicles
2022 Mach E GT, 2021 Escape PHEV, 2019 F-150
Country flag
I mean, sure, looks are subjective so no point arguing that. Mach E looks the best for sure. But, pointing out Polestar quality woes while Mach Es are welding their HVBJ contactors among all of the other smaller issues strikes me as a bit tone deaf. The MME is no bastion of high reliability at this juncture, maybe as time goes on.
Polestar's looks and being made from chinesium aside, I would take the MachE's 5 second limiter over the Polestar's terrible efficiency and ridiculous software that turtles the car to unsafe highway speeds below 10%.

The MachE is near the top of most reliability lists, the Polestar 2 (way, way) at the bottom. MachE is an objectively better car.
 


buzznwood

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2019
Threads
3
Messages
1,113
Reaction score
1,328
Location
california
Vehicles
focus st & GTPE
Country flag
Yep. Facts. It gives rated power for 5 seconds and then you get like 200HP, unacceptable for a GT.
P:eek:sted this in the EV6 thread, but Ford will need to sort out the GT at some point if the EV6 GT comes in at a similar price point as those purely after performance are not really going to consider the GT/GTPE with its current limitations (see 0-60 time).

 
OP
OP
Stang68

Stang68

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2020
Threads
13
Messages
1,204
Reaction score
2,392
Location
USA
Vehicles
Grabber Blue Mustang Mach E GT Performance
Country flag
P:eek:sted this in the EV6 thread, but Ford will need to sort out the GT at some point if the EV6 GT comes in at a similar price point as those purely after performance are not really going to consider the GT/GTPE with its current limitations (see 0-60 time).

The problem is, there is nothing special looking about that EV6 GT at all. I would totally consider it if they made it look fun, stylish, or just attractive at all? I wish they made an electric Stinger with that power...I'd buy that as my next car. But the EV6 GT doesn't look any different from the regular EV6.
 

Pushrods&Capacitors

Well-Known Member
First Name
Brian
Joined
Jun 24, 2021
Threads
28
Messages
1,751
Reaction score
3,237
Location
Round Rock, TX
Vehicles
‘21 4X, ‘14 SS Sedan tuned, ‘17 WRX tuned
Occupation
Analyst
Country flag
Polestar's looks and being made from chinesium aside, I would take the MachE's 5 second limiter over the Polestar's terrible efficiency and ridiculous software that turtles the car to unsafe highway speeds below 10%.

The MachE is near the top of most reliability lists, the Polestar 2 (way, way) at the bottom. MachE is an objectively better car.
I’m just not arguing quality with what I know about MMEs. Wait until the quality ratings have time to reflect the safety recall data among other things. We’re still waiting for 22S41 OTA over here. Hope it happens before our hvbj shits itself, yay!
But, to your Polestar efficiency point - you know the dual motor ‘22-23s do 260 miles out of a 78kwh pack, right? GTPE does 260 on an 88-91kwh, no? And Edmunds recently got 288 miles on a ‘22 Polestar 2 rated at the pre-OTA range of 249 EPA miles, so it beat it’s rated range by a much greater % than the GTPE as well.
Ford Mustang Mach-E CarWow Drag race: Mach E GT vs Mustang GT 82152DF5-B75C-4BF9-AEA4-FB887451FE59
 

Mach1E

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2021
Threads
76
Messages
7,719
Reaction score
9,602
Location
Florida
Vehicles
Mach 1, Chevy SS-sold, GTPE delivered oct 2021
Country flag
The problem is, there is nothing special looking about that EV6 GT at all. I would totally consider it if they made it look fun, stylish, or just attractive at all? I wish they made an electric Stinger with that power...I'd buy that as my next car. But the EV6 GT doesn't look any different from the regular EV6.
It’s fast but it’s downright ugly.

Even if it were plain looking I might consider it.

Why do ev and hybrid car makers think they have to do something weird with try styling? I blame Toyota (Prius) and Tesla for this.
 

SWO

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2021
Threads
19
Messages
2,075
Reaction score
2,560
Location
MD, USA
Vehicles
2022 Mach E GT, 2021 Escape PHEV, 2019 F-150
Country flag
I’m just not arguing quality with what I know about MMEs. Wait until the quality ratings have time to reflect the safety recall data among other things. We’re still waiting for 22S41 OTA over here. Hope it happens before our hvbj shits itself, yay!
But, to your Polestar efficiency point - you know the dual motor ‘22-23s do 260 miles out of a 78kwh pack, right? GTPE does 260 on an 88-91kwh, no? And Edmunds recently got 288 miles on a ‘22 Polestar 2 rated at the pre-OTA range of 249 EPA miles, so it beat it’s rated range by a much greater % than the GTPE as well.
Those look like putting-around-town numbers to me.

InsideEVs got 216 and 226 miles on their Polestar 2 highway range test, so closer to what a MachE SR does with a 68kwh pack. Even worse is that a significant portion of the bottom of the Polestar's pack is almost unusable due to the aforementioned turtle mode, which polestar has to do because they left almost no battery buffer.

https://insideevs.com/reviews/528619/polestar2-performance-70mph-range-test/
 

Pushrods&Capacitors

Well-Known Member
First Name
Brian
Joined
Jun 24, 2021
Threads
28
Messages
1,751
Reaction score
3,237
Location
Round Rock, TX
Vehicles
‘21 4X, ‘14 SS Sedan tuned, ‘17 WRX tuned
Occupation
Analyst
Country flag
Those look like putting-around-town numbers to me.

InsideEVs got 216 and 226 miles on their Polestar 2 highway range test, so closer to what a MachE SR does with a 68kwh pack. Even worse is that a significant portion of the bottom of the Polestar's pack is almost unusable due to the aforementioned turtle mode, which polestar has to do because they left almost no battery buffer.

https://insideevs.com/reviews/528619/polestar2-performance-70mph-range-test/
Edmunds does a 60/40 city/hwy split with hwy speeds 65-70. It’s repeatable and therefore you can directly compare models easily. Point is, they got 288 on a 249 EPA rating for the Polestar 2 and they got 272 on a 260 EPA in the GTPE. So, it overperforms by a greater margin.

And, Like I said, that inside EVs test you link was the old ‘21 rated at 230 miles EPA. The ‘22 went to 249 and the ‘23 is now 260. And the ‘22s are getting OTAs to get to 260 as well. So, it’s now the same EPA rating as a GTPE with with a much smaller battery.
 

SWO

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2021
Threads
19
Messages
2,075
Reaction score
2,560
Location
MD, USA
Vehicles
2022 Mach E GT, 2021 Escape PHEV, 2019 F-150
Country flag
Edmunds does a 60/40 city/hwy split with hwy speeds 65-70. It’s repeatable and therefore you can directly compare models easily. Point is, they got 288 on a 249 EPA rating for the Polestar 2 and they got 272 on a 260 EPA in the GTPE. So, it overperforms by a greater margin.

And, Like I said, that inside EVs test you link was the old ‘21 rated at 230 miles EPA. The ‘22 went to 249 and the ‘23 is now 260. And the ‘22s are getting OTAs to get to 260 as well. So, it’s now the same EPA rating as a GTPE with with a much smaller battery.
1. A city test isn't repeatable.
2. Google says they updated the range with "heat pump improvements." That's not going to help your range at all in August, and shows you how ridiculous most car companies' range estimates are.
3. Polestar is a stinker on the highway. Again, you get MachE SR numbers with the Polestar 2's 75kwh pack.
 

Pushrods&Capacitors

Well-Known Member
First Name
Brian
Joined
Jun 24, 2021
Threads
28
Messages
1,751
Reaction score
3,237
Location
Round Rock, TX
Vehicles
‘21 4X, ‘14 SS Sedan tuned, ‘17 WRX tuned
Occupation
Analyst
Country flag
Edmunds does a 60/40 city/hwy split with hwy speeds 65-70. It’s repeatable and therefore you can directly compare models easily. Point is, they got 288 on a 249 EPA rating for the Polestar 2 and they got 272 on a 260 EPA in the GTPE. So, it overperforms by a greater margin.

And, Like I said, that inside EVs test you link was the old ‘21 rated at 230 miles EPA. The ‘22 went to 249 and the ‘23 is now 260. And the ‘22s are getting OTAs to get to 260 as well. So, it’s now the same EPA rating as a GTPE with with a much smaller battery.
1. A city test isn't repeatable.
2. Google says they updated the range with "heat pump improvements." That's not going to help your range at all in August, and shows you how ridiculous most car companies' range estimates are.
3. Polestar is a stinker on the highway. Again, you get MachE SR numbers with the Polestar 2's 75kwh pack.
Bro. Come on. Just read:

https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/electric-car-range-and-consumption-epa-vs-edmunds.html#chart

Polestar 2 dual motor used 29.3kWh/100 miles, GTPE used 37.4kwh for same. Do the math. And you can decry Edmunds scientific testing regimen all you want but they are up to this point a leading source of unbiased info.

Btw, CD got 190 miles at 75mph in the their Polestar 2 test of a ‘21 that was rated at 230 miles. So, 83% of rated range. In their same 75mph loop the GTPE got 220 miles on a 260 mile rating. So, 85% of rated range. 2% better. And the ‘22-23 Polestars have improved. But hey, whatever.

Besides, who TF buys either a Polestar 2 dual motor or GTPE for fing hwy range? Really, who? If you’re really after range you get the rwd models with way less fun factor.
 

SWO

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2021
Threads
19
Messages
2,075
Reaction score
2,560
Location
MD, USA
Vehicles
2022 Mach E GT, 2021 Escape PHEV, 2019 F-150
Country flag
Bro. Come on. Just read:

https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/electric-car-range-and-consumption-epa-vs-edmunds.html#chart

Polestar 2 dual motor used 29.3kWh/100 miles, GTPE used 37.4kwh for same. Do the math. And you can decry Edmunds scientific testing regimen all you want but they are up to this point a leading source of unbiased info.

Btw, CD got 190 miles at 75mph in the their Polestar 2 test of a ‘21 that was rated at 230 miles. So, 83% of rated range. In their same 75mph loop the GTPE got 220 miles on a 260 mile rating. So, 85% of rated range. 2% better. And the ‘22-23 Polestars have improved. But hey, whatever.

Besides, who TF buys either a Polestar 2 dual motor or GTPE for fing hwy range? Really, who? If you’re really after range you get the rwd models with way less fun factor.
Bro. Come on. Just read:

https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/electric-car-range-and-consumption-epa-vs-edmunds.html#chart

Polestar 2 dual motor used 29.3kWh/100 miles, GTPE used 37.4kwh for same. Do the math. And you can decry Edmunds scientific testing regimen all you want but they are up to this point a leading source of unbiased info.

Btw, CD got 190 miles at 75mph in the their Polestar 2 test of a ‘21 that was rated at 230 miles. So, 83% of rated range. In their same 75mph loop the GTPE got 220 miles on a 260 mile rating. So, 85% of rated range. 2% better. And the ‘22-23 Polestars have improved. But hey, whatever.

Besides, who TF buys either a Polestar 2 dual motor or GTPE for fing hwy range? Really, who? If you’re really after range you get the rwd models with way less fun factor.
You seem hung up on Edmunds numbers. Back to my original point - Polestar isn't an efficient car with the dual motor having real world highway range about where a Select AWD would fall. The range increase seems to be mostly imaginary, they changed the EPA test they used in 2022. For 23 they increased range by changing the heat pump calibration - also imaginary if it's not cold out.

Polestar's own website says the dual motor is 0-60 in low 4s, so it's closer performance-wise to a Premium AWD ER (which is much more efficient) than a GTPE. Not sure why we are comparing to a GTPE?
 

HuntingPudel

Well-Known Member
First Name
Steve
Joined
Mar 23, 2021
Threads
65
Messages
8,064
Reaction score
9,625
Location
Bay Area, CA
Vehicles
2021 MME GT-PE, 1979 Fire-Am, 1972 K/5 Blazer
Occupation
Engineering
Country flag
I wonder if 2023 Mach-E GTPE will have the 5 seconds limitation removed.
Unless there is a major change in the power delivery from the batteries to the motors and cooling upgrades, it ain’t happening. 🤔🐩
Sponsored

 
 




Top