Chances of Ford really doing OTA's?

[milepost1]

communication in a customer facing Portal, newletter, or 'push' emails to Owners would be nice..... I spent 20 years in Software development and product release and would suggest that the quality of communication regarding what's being worked on, when its available, and rolling it out smoothly and proactively is just as important as what the actual enhancements are.

It is the Golden opportunity for Ford to push polls to Owners and ASK what they want first, to prioritize work and direction... rather than guess

it would be great if they did soemthing like that. I just suggested on another thread if one of the techy guys could make a spreadsheet for requested changes and rank them. i know how to make a spread sheet off line, but there is a way to do it online i am sure.

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[Kamuelaflyer]

I really don't mind going to the dealer for critical updates as long as:

1. The dealer knows the update is due and available

2. Get's me in fast

3. Get's me out in 20 minutes

The last one on your list is probably unrealistic. Critical updates are likely to take conserably longer than 20 minutes.

 

[Davedough]

The last one on your list is probably unrealistic. Critical updates are likely to take conserably longer than 20 minutes.

Completely unrelated, but I have a hard time reading any post from you without looking at your avatar and imagining a smug ass cat reciting what you've just said... with attitude... and completely judgy.

 

[dtbaker61]

The last one on your list is probably unrealistic. Critical updates are likely to take conserably longer than 20 minutes.

why would we have to go to the Dealership AT ALL for a software update?
If we are connected via wi-fi to our home network, a software update should be able to be downloaded/installed remotely?

 

[Bookworm214]

why would we have to go to the Dealership AT ALL for a software update?
If we are connected via wi-fi to our home network, a software update should be able to be downloaded/installed remotely?

I think it's because they have to be sure the car's power supply is connected to power to be sure the update won't be interrupted by a power failure of any kind. You know, like how a cellphone will tell you to connect it to the power supply before it will do an update. You wouldn't want to brick your car.

 

[milepost1]

I think it's because they have to be sure the car's power supply is connected to power to be sure the update won't be interrupted by a power failure of any kind. You know, like how a cellphone will tell you to connect it to the power supply before it will do an update. You wouldn't want to brick your car.

Just like cell phone would tell you you don't have enough charge for update. I am sure there is a way to go back should it brick your car. The whole point of OTA's is so I don't have to go to dealer. Don't recall any update on my cell causing it to not work. Or anyone else. I am sure there is one somewhere.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

why would we have to go to the Dealership AT ALL for a software update?
If we are connected via wi-fi to our home network, a software update should be able to be downloaded/installed remotely?

Other than power/wifi/cellular issues at our various locations, no idea. I'll plug it in and be done with it (hopefully).

 

[mixduptransistor]

Ford is already doing the video game DLC business model. They hold back hands-free driving; something that should have just shipped with the car, and then sell it later as planned, paid DLC.

If there are any useful new features added, be prepared to fork over extra money for them. OTA is simply a venue to sell software and to avoid expensive recalls.

Driver assist features are already options that cost money in the auto industry. The fact that it wasn't ready, and that they will be able to enable it OTA doesn't mean it's the same as video game DLC. Which, by the way, you are actually getting something with DLC, it's not like you are paying for nothing

The amount of "I want everything freeeee" around a $50-60k car is kind of amazing. No one lied about how many key fobs come with the car. No one lied about whether or not CoPilot 360 2.0 would be included free or not. Ford hasn't changed anything about this car that is a luxury item no one forced anyone else to buy and that you don't need to own in order to survive

 

[dtbaker61]

. Ford hasn't changed anything about this car that is a luxury item no one forced anyone else to buy and that you don't need to own in order to survive

I don't consider a second key, or at least a 'keyless' Backup StartCode to be a luxury item. I DO consider it somewhat of a survival necessity; if I drive my MME into the mountains for a hike, and lose my ONE key, and there is no other way to start the car.... that's a survival problem.

I don't care so much if PaaK is or is not working 100%, as long as I can set and use a BackupStartCode to start the car. I'd rather have this than a second Fob in fact, but currently it is not possible to set or use the BackupStartCode until you can get thru PaaK configuration at least once... which I cannot as my phone is 'unsupported' for PaaK for some unknown reason.

so.... Ford IS forcing me to buy something, at an outrageous price, that I consider a safety item more than a luxury item. Worse yet, Dealership is saying they cannot GET me a second Fob, when we all know they are available online for less than $100

 

[TheVirtualTim]

I don't consider a second key to be a luxury item. I DO consider it somewhat of a survival necessity; if I drive my MME into the mountains for a hike, and lose my ONE key, and there is no other way to start the car.... that's a survival problem.

I don't care so much if PaaK is or is not working 100%, as long as I can set and use a BackupStartCode to start the car. I'd rather have this than a second Fob in fact, but currently it is not possible to set or use the BackupStartCode until you can get thru Paak configuration at least once... which I cannot.

so.... Ford IS forcing me to buy something, at an outrageous price, that I consider a safety item more than a luxury item.

Keep in mind, once you set up PaaK and your backup start-password, you can drive the car not only without your phone... you don't even need your fob -- as long as you don't forget your password.

I have experienced PaaK issues where it didn't "just work" when I approached the car (Bluetooth didn't properly connect), but I have never had an issue where I could get Bluetooth to connect when re-trying. So I'm not too worried about PaaK failing and me having no key-fob.

To me... the idea behind the 2nd key-fob is that I think the valet will be confused with the fact that car will let you valet it with no key at all. But I don't want to give the valet my only key. I'd rather get a 2nd key and program a "MyKey" (reduced permission key vs. the 'admin' level key that can do anything when driving).

 

[TheVirtualTim]

I've already spoken to some Ford people in my area.

The OTA's are on the horizon ... they do have to go through some testing (e.g. Ford deploys them on their own fleet vehicles first) before being released to consumer cars.

I don't know if that means we'll be seeing updates on consumer cars in a few weeks or in a couple of months ... but I don't think it will be much longer.


As for the subscription to enable self-driving on freeways ... that's the sort of thing where I expect they'll regularly have to keep re-mapping the freeways to keep the system up-to-date. You wouldn't want the car to trust stale road information that hadn't been updated in years.

I view the cost of the subscription not as the cost of equipment ... but the cost of the service of keeping the road information up-to-date.

 

[dtbaker61]

Keep in mind, once you set up PaaK and your backup start-password, you can drive the car not only without your phone... you don't even need your fob -- as long as you don't forget your password.

You are not reading my posting carefully enough.

I have never been able to set up my phone as a key, EVER. PaaK configuration fails every time with the message my phone is not supported.

Hence, I have never gotten the ability to set a backup start code. This is why I said I don't really care if phone as a key functionality is flaky, I just need to set it up once or be able to set up the backup start code without ever having been able to set it up if it does not like my phone from the beginning....

Hence, I want either a second physical Fob (yes, for free), or an OTA that would allow me to set BackupStartCode, maybe only if a Fob is present, without having set up PaaK at all ever. Then, I'd be all set to get in the car with the door code, and start the car with the StartCode.

 

[RedStallion]

Was there an OTA update of some kind the last night? My car took probably 30 sec to boot this morning, all that time the big screen went black. Didn't have that before. Is there a log somewhere to check if any updates were installed?

 

[littlD]

"Ford pushed out Sync 4a too soon; they clearly are rushing things too much"
"Ford is moving too slowly; they should push out software much faster"
?

You nailed it! It needs to be a sensible balance between trying to release perfect software and releasing high quality software in a way that minimizes bugs and their effects.

I hope Ford follows a similar pattern to how Tesla rolls out new software updates:

Short Example with made up numbers:

Version 2021.4 -rolled out to just a few cars, Tesla monitors logs and any feedback from owners
Version 2021.4.1 - Rolled out to hundreds more cars, Tesla monitors logs and owner feedback
Version 2021.4.2 - Rolled out to thousands more cars
Version 2021.4.2.1 - Rolled out to fix bugs affecting cars that already have 2021.4, 2021.4.1, or 2021.4.2
Version 2021.4.3 - Rolled out to the entire fleet

A Tesla owner can request a rollback from the Service Center if the latest version introduces an annoying or, worse yet, dangerous bug. These rollbacks are granted rarely for annoyance, quickly for dangerous (I've never had to request this once after 77 updates on my Model 3 and 26 on my Model Y).

Which cars get software first switches via a pattern that assures that each car gets some early releases from time to time.

Obviously, safety related features have much more internal QA testing before even being released to a single car. Tesla does this as I'm sure Ford does too.

This is roughly the pattern companies use to rollout new versions of their websites in the cloud.

If instead Ford pushes updates to all cars at one time, that could be very problematic. Why?
1.They'll risk affecting the entire fleet with unforseen bugs while trying to fix existing ones.
2.They'll try to test every conceivable use case before releasing. this greatly slows down releasing software and not get feedback from users.

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