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ChasingCoral

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Hmm, that would be great if that is the case. Do you have confirmation of that? I planned on getting one also for the same reason - lots of hotels have tesla destination chargers. I'm just worried that the car and charger will negotiate to 11.5kw and overheat the adapter.
TL;DR: A 32A ($180) or 40A ($180) TeslaTap works fine on an 80A Tesla L2 Charger (not Supercharger) but will potentially charge more slowly than a 80A Tesla Tap ($240). However, we think a Mach E doesn't charge over about 11.5kW so the 50A Tesla Tap ($190) is all you need for it.

Tesla Tap has several well-written pages on this:
How EVSEs work
http://www.umc-j1772.com/index.php?route=information/information&information_id=8
and
pages for each Tesla Tap model
http://www.umc-j1772.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=17&product_id=50
http://www.umc-j1772.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=17&product_id=102
http://www.umc-j1772.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=17&product_id=99
http://www.umc-j1772.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=17&product_id=100

You can also read more at:
https://www.greencarreports.com/new...nd-why-does-your-electric-car-charger-need-it
and a really nice powerpoint at
https://ewh.ieee.org/r3/nashville/e... Review_of_Basics - IEEE - MCPQG Meeting4.pdf

All of this agrees with my understanding of how EVSEs operate: The EVSE communicates to the car how much power it can provide and the car's onboard charger determines the rate at which it will charge. On a Tesla, you can select this. So far we are unaware of an ability to select lower rates on the Mach E.

This is why you don't have to worry about the output of a public L2 charger. You'll get the max your car can take or the EVSE can provide, whichever is lower.

This is also why you can't put a 48A EVSE on a 40A circuit unless you can tell either the EVSE or the car to limit their draw. While the car can communicate with the EVSE to find out the EVSE's max capability, the EVSE has no idea what the circuit breaker (or wiring) is capable of.
 

Kamuelaflyer

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The Tesla Tap doesn’t work with superchargers. It only works with Tesla destination chargers (L2).
No Tesla destination chargers either. None. Tesla's need to charge at home or using a CHADEMO adaptor and find one of those. Telsa has zero current plans to remedy any of that. They've had one supercharger in the "planning" phase for over 5 years now and nothing has moved forward in all that time.
 

macchiaz-o

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TL;DR: A 32A ($180) or 40A ($180) TeslaTap works fine on an 80A Tesla L2 Charger (not Supercharger) but will potentially charge more slowly than a 80A Tesla Tap ($240). However, we think a Mach E doesn't charge over about 11.5kW so the 50A Tesla Tap ($190) is all you need for it.
I believe your first sentence is NOT CORRECT. If the 32A adapter is rated for use in a maximum 40A circuit, and you put it in between a 48A EVSE and a Mustang Mach-E, you are risking an overheat scenario in that adapter.

Your last sentence, regarding the 50A adapter, is probably correct.

Be aware that these adapter products are breaking some of the safety considerations that are in place when no adapter is used. This is probably why none of the available Tesla to J1772 adapters are UL certified or registered with Intertek. None of them comply with NEC. Use at your own risk.

Heed the vendor's recommendation (from each of the product pages you linked):

It is recommended that you verify that the charger you are connecting to does not exceed your EV's voltage rating.
And now as I re-read their advice... "not exceed ... voltage rating." What?! What about current?
 

ChasingCoral

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I believe your first sentence is NOT CORRECT. If the 32A adapter is rated for use in a maximum 40A circuit, and you put it in between a 48A EVSE and a Mustang Mach-E, you are risking an overheat scenario in that adapter.
If the Tesla Tap were simply a dumb pass-through, you would be correct. However, that's part of the electronics of the Tesla Tap. It will limit the charge rate to the capacity of the Tesla Tap model. That's why even the original 32A Tesla Tap says:
"YES, THIS ADAPTER DOES WORK ON THE GEN 2 WALL CONNECTOR"
despite the Gen 2 operating at up to 80A.
 

macchiaz-o

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If the Tesla Tap were simply a dumb pass-through, you would be correct. However, that's part of the electronics of the Tesla Tap. It will limit the charge rate to the capacity of the Tesla Tap model. That's why even the original 32A Tesla Tap says:
"YES, THIS ADAPTER DOES WORK ON THE GEN 2 WALL CONNECTOR"
despite the Gen 2 operating at up to 80A.
The adapter may have some minimal circuitry to convince a Gen 2 Wall Connector to begin a charging session, but I suspect it will be little more than some correctly sized resistors.

Their original 32A adapter may be reasonably safe to use on cars with AC inverters rated to 8 kW or less, but I still believe you are introducing significant risk by using that adapter to charge a vehicle that accepts 12 kW power with an EVSE that is similarly capable.

Just putting it out there... You do you. I'm not an expert on this, either, but I've read enough to determine that I would not do this.
 

ChasingCoral

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The adapter may have some minimal circuitry to convince a Gen 2 Wall Connector to begin a charging session, but I suspect it will be little more than some correctly sized resistors.

Their original 32A adapter may be reasonably safe to use on cars with AC inverters rated to 8 kW or less, but I still believe you are introducing significant risk by using that adapter to charge a vehicle that accepts 12 kW power with an EVSE that is similarly capable.

Just putting it out there... You do you. I'm not an expert on this, either, but I've read enough to determine that I would not do this.
I appreciate it. I still don't understand why you think it will be a problem.
 

macchiaz-o

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I appreciate it. I still don't understand why you think it will be a problem.
I think we just disagree on whether or not the adapter is influencing the vehicle's decision on maximum safe amperage.

You believe that the adapter itself is negotiating Tesla and J1772 protocols to select a safe amperage limit based on the combination of EVSE, adapter model, and vehicle.

Meanwhile, I believe the only difference between the various TeslaTap adapters is their wire gauge and insulation.

I don't know which one of us is correct.
 

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Just to follow up on this, since the Mach E seems to accommodate up to at least 9.6 if not 11.2 kW charging, I ordered the 50A TeslaTap. It arrived in the mail today. We're planning a road trip next Friday in our Leaf and there is a garage with cheap parking and free charging near our destination (Christkindlmarkt Bethlehem, PA). Since they only have a couple of chargers and one is Tesla, I figured it would double our chances to charge.
Is this adapter for what is called Tesla Destination charger which is L2 in fact, but only have the Tesla connector? Wouldn't Tesla charger only work with Tesla cars even with an adapter since it won't be able to communicate with the other cars?
 

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Is this adapter for what is called Tesla Destination charger which is L2 in fact, but only have the Tesla connector? Wouldn't Tesla charger only work with Tesla cars even with an adapter since it won't be able to communicate with the other cars?
Aha - so that's why it definitely has to have some electronics in it! It must contain gateway functionality that translates between the 2 protocols. OK, now I don't feel so bad about spending $200 on the thing...I've actually written similar software at my previous job.
 

ChasingCoral

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Aha - so that's why it definitely has to have some electronics in it! It must contain gateway functionality that translates between the 2 protocols. OK, now I don't feel so bad about spending $200 on the thing...I've actually written similar software at my previous job.
Exactly!
 

macchiaz-o

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Aha - so that's why it definitely has to have some electronics in it! It must contain gateway functionality that translates between the 2 protocols. OK, now I don't feel so bad about spending $200 on the thing...I've actually written similar software at my previous job.
Or it's just a single signaling resistor.

We don't know.
 

timbop

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Or it's just a single signaling resistor.

We don't know.
I am clearly a software guy, so I am probably wrong but I would assume that since CCS has multiple signaling pins and Tesla just the 1 there needs to be more than just a resistor. Maybe? And even if it is a resistor, would that not be able to correctly indicate the max charge rate at 9.6 kw even if the car signals a max of 11.5 kw?
 

macchiaz-o

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I am clearly a software guy, so I am probably wrong but I would assume that since CCS has multiple signaling pins and Tesla just the 1 there needs to be more than just a resistor. Maybe? And even if it is a resistor, would that not be able to correctly indicate the max charge rate at 9.6 kw even if the car signals a max of 11.5 kw?
OK in an effort to keep you and @ChasingCoral safe, because I 💙 you guys, I just spoke with Dave at TeslaTap to get some clarifications. And by the way, you are free to call him, too. His cell phone number is listed at the top of each page on his web site. Very cool dude.

It is absolutely NOT safe to place an underrated TeslaTap adapter in between a high amperage EVSE and a high amperage vehicle. You will overheat the adapter and may cause fire or other issues.

TeslaTap DOES NOT IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCE negotiate charging speeds between EVSE and vehicle.

For safest connection to a Mustang Mach-E, you would need to purchase the 80A capable TeslaTap.

The circuitry in TeslaTap is there to send the 400 Hz signalling required by certain Tesla EVSEs in order to switch them into J1772 mode. The way it works in this case is that you must begin a charging session in this order:
  1. Connect Tesla EVSE to TeslaTap.
  2. TeslaTap is signalling with the EVSE to place EVSE into J1772 mode. Wait 26 seconds.
  3. While TeslaTap is still connected to the Tesla EVSE, you will now plug the other end of it into your vehicle. Charging should begin.
Some extra information that may be of interest to people:

Dave has gotten ahold of some Tesla Gen 3 Wall Connectors. These are able to charge at up to 11.5kW, 48A. He has recently figured out how to modify them to be J1772 chargers.

He's got about 10 more of these units that he'll be receiving soon. And in approximately a week, he will be updating his web site with a new offering which will be his modified Tesla Gen 3 Wall Connector where he's replaced the Tesla plug with a J1772 plug.

He has several Porsche Taycan owners interested in this, because he'll be able to sell it for roughly $629 while Porsche's similarly capable charger is a few grand.
 

ChasingCoral

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Awesome input. I’ma bit puzzled by this part though:

For safest connection to a Mustang Mach-E, you would need to purchase the 80A capable TeslaTap.
Based on all the information we have, the Mach E is only capable of charging at up to ~11.5kW. Wouldn’t that mean the 50A unit would suffice?
 

macchiaz-o

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Based on all the information we have, the Mach E is only capable of charging at up to ~11.5kW. Wouldn’t that mean the 50A unit would suffice?
I can't get to his web site now. I think we overloaded it. :)

So I can't see the details right now, but if the 50A unit means the cable rating is to 50A, then the maximum continuous charge draw would be 40A.

On the phone, we discussed how the Mach-E is able to handle up to 48A L2 charging. Based on that information, he said the 80A adapter is the one that is needed because it has thicker wiring.
 



 









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