Charging FAIL & GREAT Surprise When We Compare The Model Y & Mach-E On The World’s Toughest EV Test!

Mach-E VLOG

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this is why elsewhere on here I've said that a place like a Sheetz (*) is not a terrible place to have a charger... places to get decent made-to-order food with places to sit... and truck stops would be even better because no kidding, if you've never looked at truck stops because they are "beneath you" or "I'm not a trucker" or whatever, you're really doing yourself a disservice. (**)

(*) regional reference - replace with "Wawa" or whatever I guess
(**) very US-centered view here - no idea about outside of US
I've always loved stopping at truck stops. When I was a kid it was one of the highlights of every trip.

And in the UK, they have things called "Motorway Service Areas." They are like are Rest Areas but they also have gas stations, restaurants, and a small shop. That would be ideal here. I think they are a private/public partnership.
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jhalkias

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Unfortunately in states that don't allow kWh billing, it will be extremely expensive to continue past 80% even when necessary.

It's definitely a design choice - at 80% the car jumps down from "DC" speeds to "AC" speeds instantaneously. Ford is saying you *will not* DC Fast Charge past 80%, if you obstinately remain connected to a DC Fast Charger past 80% we will slow you to the same speed you'd get from an AC wallbox and let you tie up a quarter million dollar piece of equipment longer than you need to. We should be allowed to charge past 80% at DC speeds if we need to, we know the risks.
So you know the risks . . .

You know Tesla does this too, right? That's why it is called a charging CURVE. The Curve drops off on Tesla's DC fast charging too - maybe not as dramatically as these current pre production Mach E's, but it does drop off at a similar state of charge. It is for safety once you get so many electrons in there, trying to push a lot more in fast can damage the battery or cause a fire. I like the analogy of pumping up a tire, once you are within several pounds of the max pressure, it gets a LOT harder to put in those last few pounds as the air pressure in the tire pushes back.

Me, I will trust the engineers until they think the rate is safe - I really don't know the risks. I think Ford will improve it with data, but never to the point of full at full DCFC 150 KW rates.
 

JamieGeek

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this is why elsewhere on here I've said that a place like a Sheetz (*) is not a terrible place to have a charger... places to get decent made-to-order food with places to sit... and truck stops would be even better because no kidding, if you've never looked at truck stops because they are "beneath you" or "I'm not a trucker" or whatever, you're really doing yourself a disservice. (**)

(*) regional reference - replace with "Wawa" or whatever I guess
(**) very US-centered view here - no idea about outside of US
I've always loved stopping at truck stops. When I was a kid it was one of the highlights of every trip.

And in the UK, they have things called "Motorway Service Areas." They are like are Rest Areas but they also have gas stations, restaurants, and a small shop. That would be ideal here. I think they are a private/public partnership.
The service plaza's on the Ohio Turnpike are some of the nicest ones I've ever been to ! LOL

They include several restaurants, a news stand, travel brochures, showers, and even spots for RVs to overnight (and now they also have DCFC's).
Ford Mustang Mach-E Charging FAIL & GREAT Surprise When We Compare The Model Y & Mach-E On The World’s Toughest EV Test! IMG_0599

(Yeah ok an old pic: no DCFC's at this time or any cable porn for that matter. I do have newer pics however they are from the opposite angle so you just would see the RV & Bolt in a parking lot...not very exciting.)
 

dbsb3233

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It seems like charging stations could be a huge business opportunity. From what I've read, gas stations actually don't make much from gas sales but make money from selling snacks and drinks. And those are just quick stops. If you are charging and have a longer stop, it seems like you'd be more likely to spend money. Right now, about 90% of the time I never even go into a gas station. But when I stop at a charging station, I would definitely go in almost every time. I'm hoping that once there are more EVs, some business entity will start making EV Travel Stops with lounges, restaurants, etc.
Agreed... sort of. Yes, pairing charger with restaurants/stores/etc is far more important for BEVs than for ICE, since a 3-minute refuel becomes a 30 minute refuel. Most people are gonna want something useful there to kill all that wasted time.

However, since chargers don't require huge underground storage tanks, special ground use permitting, and all the other stuff that goes into building a gas station, I think the model reverses -- instead of adding fast food or a convenience store to a gas station, it's easier just to add chargers to restaurants and stores that already exist. All they need is a power source and a few parking spots. It's much easier to just put chargers in the parking lots of Walmart or Target or a mall. Or a McDonalds or Applebees. Or simply added to existing travel plazas.

The other problem with building EV-only based travel plazas is lack of throughput. Over the course of the day, you're likely to get far fewer customers than a gas station. It takes 10x longer for each customer to refuel, so your turnover rate is far worse. That makes it hard for a restaurant to survive on EV customers alone. Thus why adding chargers to existing businesses that already have business usually makes more sense.
 
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So you know the risks . . .

You know Tesla does this too, right? That's why it is called a charging CURVE. The Curve drops off on Tesla's DC fast charging too - maybe not as dramatically as these current pre production Mach E's, but it does drop off at a similar state of charge. It is for safety once you get so many electrons in there, trying to push a lot more in fast can damage the battery or cause a fire. I like the analogy of pumping up a tire, once you are within several pounds of the max pressure, it gets a LOT harder to put in those last few pounds as the air pressure in the tire pushes back.

Me, I will trust the engineers until they think the rate is safe - I really don't know the risks. I think Ford will improve it with data, but never to the point of full at full DCFC 150 KW rates.
"CURVE"(s) as you point out do not drop instantaneously from 80 kW to 12 kW. That's a cliff, not a curve.

I understand completely what's happening here, Ford wants to be careful because they provide a capacity warranty for Mach-E and Tesla doesn't, so Tesla can run at 40 kW at 90% and not care if it degrades capacity over the long term, because they have total discretion as to what batteries they will replace under warranty and which they will not. Ford guarantees 70% life up to 100,000 miles, so they really don't want us degrading our batteries.

I still maintain I know the risks, and I would like the option to unlock the speed beyond 80%.
 


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I'm not surprised that Buc-ee's hasn't put any DCFC in yet, but I would hope they see the opportunity to do so soon.
 

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Not any in-depth info yet, but @OutofSpecKyle recently broke his own EV cannonball trans-continental record in a Porsche Taycan that he set in a M3 RWD ER. Significant because he used public charging like EA, and not the supercharger network of Tesla.

The Taycan has a very good charging curve - I think I remember it doesn't taper much until that 80% mark, but much less range (around 200 miles or so) than a ER M3 or Mach E.

 

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Agreed... sort of. Yes, pairing charger with restaurants/stores/etc is far more important for BEVs than for ICE, since a 3-minute refuel becomes a 30 minute refuel. Most people are gonna want something useful there to kill all that wasted time.

However, since chargers don't require huge underground storage tanks, special ground use permitting, and all the other stuff that goes into building a gas station, I think the model reverses -- instead of adding fast food or a convenience store to a gas station, it's easier just to add chargers to restaurants and stores that already exist. All they need is a power source and a few parking spots. It's much easier to just put chargers in the parking lots of Walmart or Target or a mall. Or a McDonalds or Applebees. Or simply added to existing travel plazas.
Yeah, that would work too. And hopefully, some national chain realizes this and makes it a priority. I could see it working at fast food places like McDonalds or sit down restaurants like Cracker Barrel.

One thing I do want to explore when I get my Mach-E -- the accessibility of these stations. I like that a lot of the EA stations are at Wal-Marts, but they are usually way out in the parking lot. My wife uses a prosthetic to walk. Most of the time that would be no issue, but some days that will be a painful walk across a large parking lot.
 

Mach-E VLOG

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Not any in-depth info yet, but @OutofSpecKyle recently broke his own EV cannonball trans-continental record in a Porsche Taycan that he set in a M3 RWD ER. Significant because he used public charging like EA, and not the supercharger network of Tesla.

The Taycan has a very good charging curve - I think I remember it doesn't taper much until that 80% mark, but much less range (around 200 miles or so) than a ER M3 or Mach E.

Very cool! I followed some of this via his posts on Twitter. I think the Taycan actually has a pretty decent real world highway cruising range.
 

jhalkias

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Yeah, that would work too. And hopefully, some national chain realizes this and makes it a priority. I could see it working at fast food places like McDonalds or sit down restaurants like Cracker Barrel.

One thing I do want to explore when I get my Mach-E -- the accessibility of these stations. I like that a lot of the EA stations are at Wal-Marts, but they are usually way out in the parking lot. My wife uses a prosthetic to walk. Most of the time that would be no issue, but some days that will be a painful walk across a large parking lot.
Yeah, it's kind of a conundrum. If they put them real close, they get iced. If they put them too far, issues like you are pointing out.
 

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Yeah, that would work too. And hopefully, some national chain realizes this and makes it a priority. I could see it working at fast food places like McDonalds or sit down restaurants like Cracker Barrel.

One thing I do want to explore when I get my Mach-E -- the accessibility of these stations. I like that a lot of the EA stations are at Wal-Marts, but they are usually way out in the parking lot. My wife uses a prosthetic to walk. Most of the time that would be no issue, but some days that will be a painful walk across a large parking lot.
The fact that they're at the back of the parking lot is likely a positive for user experience, because that decreases the probability they will be ICEd, and they have a high probability of being used not by the actual Walmart guests, but by people stopping through on road trips.

What bothers me about accessibility is the bollards placed around the chargers in ways that likely would prevent someone in a wheelchair from grabbing the cable and lifting the heavy cable over the bollard to their car, the height of the screens on some chargers, and the fact that they're almost always up a solid curb from the parking lot itself.
 

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I understand completely what's happening here
Actually, there's a high probability that you don't understand, completely or otherwise. Unless you're a senior member of the Mustang Mach-e team at Ford, there's a virtual 100% chance that none of us understand completely.
 

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No. What kind?

Edited: Found it in Plugshare. Chargepoint chargers at a Kum & Go gas station. Interesting that they're branded with the Kum & Go logo, and a Colorago logo (suggesting they probably got a CO state grant). No mention of power level yet.

https://www.plugshare.com/location/291121

While I shouldn't need them (EA has sufficient coverage along that stretch of I-70), it's nice to know there's backups going in in case there's a problem with the EAs.

Ford Mustang Mach-E Charging FAIL & GREAT Surprise When We Compare The Model Y & Mach-E On The World’s Toughest EV Test! 660698
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